(00:01) all right oh we’re getting into some serious topics here to be so giggly this morning i know especially for where we’re at in our cycle i know true okay all i see is my lips it shows you i’m recording on your side right yeah okay cool greetings boys and babes it’s the magic hour a place where we navigate through life’s peaks and valleys with all the vulnerability and shamelessness we can muster with the help of world-class guests from all walks of life we uncover new truths and valuable tools for

(00:38) manifesting our highest potential i’m your host mercedes terrell along with my partner in shine jade bryce hey you guys as we are all well aware we have an incredibly powerful movement happening currently that’s asking us all to look more deeply at the separation and polarization we’re experiencing amongst our fellow man and specifically people of color note that we said movement not moment because this time things are different this time you can feel the [ __ ] hitting the fan and the shift happening

(01:08) but a lot of people feel overwhelmed with questions on how to help how to explore if there’s any racism in themselves and how to talk to others about it yes it’s important to feel the [ __ ] to feel the shift and i know for me i just want to make sure that i’m part of this movement and helping that change come to fruition but you’re right it’s been decades of systemic racism and it can be an overwhelming thought to try to pinpoint just how to deconstruct that especially when believe it or not they’re actually

(01:38) still people opposing that change from happening yeah that part is quite imagining and i know today’s guess is going to help us understand our role in this and what really needs to happen yeah bell hooks in her book all about love explains that people who are willing to speak out against injustice are not smarter or kinder than their neighbors but are willing to live the truth of their values and that is one of the main goals of the show here um is to help us and our listeners live out the truth of our values

(02:10) if we believe in love as a value then our work becomes a confronting lovelessness in all of its forms and fighting for love and i can’t think of a time in our country’s history where living the truth of our values and fighting for love hasn’t been considered dangerous and radical brene brown posted about this and said i’m starting to wonder if hook’s concept of quote unquote love ethic isn’t one of the big variables that differentiates control which is keeping it comfortable and palatable and real change which is

(02:41) reimagining and rebuilding the system [Music] yeah and our guest today says that this is an activism this is humanitarianism so let’s get them on so we can get into this topic deeper yes our guest today is an actor storyteller and talented musician he is jax in the upcoming mortal kombat film and you may know him from the show’s desperate housewives true blood or supergirl as an anti-racist spiritual activist he’s aiding in this much necessary consciousness shift happening on our planet by being prolific on social media

(03:16) in this unprecedented consciousness boot camp that we’re all in that hit a tipping point with the murder of george floyd he’s emerged as a voice of a generation he knows his history and has shown love honesty and empathy as he shared his deep pain vulnerably and transparently he’s also started the church of anti-racism on instagram which is currently in the midst of a 21 day anti-racist challenge this man is an essential voice in helping others including myself understand and digest this powerful movement

(03:48) please help me welcome my cod brooks do that again yeah i thought you had changed something but i didn’t see it change anymore yeah it took out black lives matter oh okay i just changed it to different wording basically okay greetings boys and babes it’s the magic hour a place where we navigate through life’s peaks and valleys with all the vulnerability and shamelessness we can muster with the help of world-class guests from all walks of life we uncover new truths and valuable tools for manifesting our highest potential i’m

(04:25) your host mercedes terrell along with my partner in shine jade bryce hey you guys as we are all well aware we have an incredibly powerful movement happening currently that’s asking us all to look more deeply at the separation and polarization we’re experiencing amongst our fellow man and specifically people of color note that we said movement not mo moment i’ve already messed this up a couple times greetings boys and babes it’s the magic hour a place where we navigate through life’s peaks and valleys with all the

(04:57) vulnerability and shamelessness we can muster with the help of world-class guests from all walks of life we uncover new truths and valuable tools for manifesting our highest potential i’m your host mercedes terrell along with my partner in shine jade bryce hey you guys as we are all well aware we have an incredibly powerful movement happening that’s asking us all to look more deeply at the separation and polarization we’re experiencing amongst our fellow man and specifically people of color note that we said movement not moment

(05:29) because this time things are different this time you can feel the [ __ ] hitting the fan and the shift happening but a lot of people feel overwhelmed with questions on how to help how to explore if there’s any racism in themselves and how to talk to others about it yeah i love that saying you got to feel the [ __ ] to feel the shift and i know for me i just want to make sure i’m part of this movement and helping that change come to fruition but you’re right it’s been decades of systemic racism and it can be

(05:58) overwhelming um it can be an overwhelming thought to try to pinpoint exactly how to deconstruct all of that especially when believe it or not there are still people that are trying to oppose this change from happening yeah that part is quite maddening and i know today’s guest is going to help us understand our role in this and what truly needs to happen yeah and it brings up bell hooks in her book all about love who explains that people are willing to the people who are willing to speak out against injustice are not smarter or

(06:34) kinder than our neighbors but are willing to i got this [ __ ] up yeah that that reminds me actually of um bell hooks and in her book all about love she explains that people who are willing to speak out again against injustice are not smarter or kinder than their neighbors but are willing to live the truth of their values and that’s one of the main goals of our show here it’s to help us and our listeners to live out the truth of our values and if we believe in love as a value then our work becomes confronting lovelessness in all

(07:07) of its forms and fighting for love and i can’t think of a time in our country’s history where living the truth of our values and fighting for love hasn’t been considered dangerous and radical brene brown posted about this and she said i’m starting to wonder if hook’s concept of quote unquote love ethic isn’t one of the big variables that differentiates control being keeping it comfortable and palatable and real change you know being reimagining and rebuilding the system yes and our guest today says that this

(07:37) is an activism this is humanitarianism so let’s get them on so we can get into this topic deeper yes let’s do it our guest today is an actor storyteller and talented musician he is jax in the upcoming mortal kombat film and you may know him from the show’s desperate housewives true blood or supergirl as an anti-racist spiritual activist he’s aiding this much necessary consciousness shift happening on our planet by being prolific on social media in this unprecedented conscious boot camp that we’re all in that hit a

(08:09) tipping point with the murder of george floyd he’s emerged as a voice of a generation he knows his history and has shown love honesty and empathy as he shared his deep pain vulnerably and transparently he’s also started the church of anti-racism on instagram which is currently in the midst of a 21 day anti-racist challenge this man is an essential voice in helping others including myself understand and digest this powerful movement please help me welcome mccod brooks to the magic hour the i didn’t realize it until now but

(08:41) where you say much it says much necessary it should just say much needed uh he’s aiding in this much needed consciousness shift happening okay since necessary um he said yes much needed okay is he getting on okay he’s not saying anything um it’s 203 maybe at 205 i’ll say hey just make sure the link is working you want to go through one more time yeah okay greetings boys and babes it’s the magic hour a place where we navigate through life’s peaks and valleys with all the vulnerability and shamelessness we can

(09:35) muster with the help of world-class guests from all walks of life we uncover new truths and valuable tools for manifesting our highest potential i’m your host mercedes terrell along with my partner in shine jade bryce hey you guys as we are all well aware we have an incredibly powerful movement happening that’s asking us all to look more deeply at the separation and polarization we’re experiencing amongst our fellow man and specifically people of color note that we said movement not moment because this time things are different

(10:07) this time you can feel the [ __ ] hitting the fan and the shift happening but a lot of people feel overwhelmed with questions on how to help how to explore if there’s any racism in themselves and how to talk to others about it yeah i love that saying feel the [ __ ] to feel the shift and i know for me i just want to make sure i’m part of this movement and helping that change come to fruition but you’re right it’s been decades of systemic racism and it can be an overwhelming thought to try to pinpoint

(10:33) just how to deconstruct that especially when believe it or not there are actually still people opposing that change from happening yes that part is quite maddening i know today’s guess is going to help us understand our role in this and what really needs to happen yeah bell hooks in in her book all about love explains that people who are willing to speak out against injustice are not smarter or kinder than their neighbors but are willing to live the truth of their values and that’s one of the main goals of the show here is to help us and

(11:03) our listeners live out the truth of our values and if we believe in love as a value then our work becomes confronting lovelessness in all of its forms and fighting for love and i can’t think of a time in our country’s history where living the truth of our values and fighting for love hasn’t been considered dangerous and radical uh renee brown i’m sure our listeners are familiar with by now uh she posted about this and she said i’m starting to wonder if hook’s concepts of a quote-unquote love ethic isn’t one of

(11:35) the big variables that differentiates control which is keeping it comfortable and palatable and real change reimagining and rebuilding the system something to think about here yeah and as our guest today says this is an activism this is humanitarianism let’s get them on so we can get into this topic deeper hi hi sorry guys how you doing i’m sorry i’m like um really dressed up in saloon right now so oh you’re until then that’s amazing awesome good you you’ve been there with the kingsbury two right the last time they

(12:10) went yeah yeah awesome um so um if it’s uh if you’re all good if you don’t have any questions we’re just gonna read your bio and then jump in and start asking you stuff yeah okay yeah just double check are you on i don’t know why it’s not pulling your face up for me here are you mcconnell on hd uh through zoom i can uh i’m on zoom okay so down are you on a computer or the phone right now ipad okay perfect so where it says at the bottom i think left should say there’s like a little stop video thing

(12:52) and there’s a little arrow next to it you see that bottom left of the screen no we just use it for we use this for promo videos on instagram so so so what are you trying to do sorry so bottom bottom left of the screen there should be a mute and a stop video buttons do you see those no mine’s mine mine’s set up differently so if mine’s top right okay so it should be in video settings is what i’m looking for and then there’s just a little option you click that’ll say facetime hd camera once you open up video settings

(13:32) [Music] he might not have an hd camera on the ipad it might not be an option let me see here i have medium settings let’s see i don’t have that okay you look pretty clear right now so i don’t know if it’s even an issue but yeah okay and then do you have just uh and this isn’t a necessary but you’ll just sound better if you do do you have a pair of headphones with you um i do but they don’t fit into the ipad okay no worries otherwise otherwise your airpods they don’t sound they don’t sound good yeah

(14:09) yeah okay all right um all right mercedes you’re recording we’re all good on the side okay it doesn’t say recording on mine huh i’m saying all right yes and as our guest today says this isn’t activism this is humanitarianism let’s get him on so we can get into this topic deeper our guest today is an actor storyteller and talented musician he is jax in the upcoming mortal kombat film and you may know him from the show’s desperate housewives trueblood supergirl as an anti-racist spiritual activist

(14:42) he’s aiding in this much needed consciousness shift happening on our planet by being prolific on social media in this unprecedented consciousness boot camp that we are all in that hit a tipping point with the murder of george floyd he has emerged as a voice of a generation he knows his history and has shown love honesty and empathy as he shared his deep pain vulnerably and transparently he’s also started the church of anti-racism on instagram which is currently in the midst of a 21-day anti-racist challenge this man is an

(15:11) essential voice in helping others including myself understand and digest this powerful movement please help me welcome mccod brooks to the magic hour yay i that that gave me goosebumps wow oh me too i would love for you to follow me around and just say that introduce you at every restaurant always introduce me so tell us a little bit about your backstory maybe hurdles that you faced from being a person of color and now the emotional impact of watching white people wake up to racism wow that’s that’s a that’s a compound

(15:54) let’s address those one at a time if you would yeah um which which part first maybe a little bit of your backstory backstory i’m 39 years old i’m from austin texas um i was born and raised there but i kind of lived all over lived in uh as a kid i lived in new york i lived in california live in ohio but mostly in austin um [Music] i had a great childhood for the most part um tough childhood in some ways broken family but yeah there was a there was a lot of um activism in my art humanitarianism humanitarianism in my house

(16:33) humanitarianism jesus i’m sorry i was just swimming in the ocean so uh there was a lot of a lot of humanitarianism in my house my dad was a civil rights attorney my mother is a journalist um wow so i grew up i grew up with the numbers i grew up with the stories i grew up with the experiences i i i was 12 years old when i saw a man who was decapitated by white supremacists his own neighbors and my dad represented their family um we had white supremacists kill our dog when i was 13 because my dad was getting confederate

(17:12) monuments taken down in texas and trying to fight against having a confederate heroes remembrance day that texas was having on juneteenth oh my god yeah so that’s how i grew up um went to an elementary school called robert e lee elementary where i was indoctrinated with the song about how compassionate and kind and generous he was and we my brothers and i actually got in trouble because we wouldn’t sing it um yeah it’s it’s um it’s almost as if it’s like obviously we’re black people are not a

(17:56) monolithic group right sport is 40.2 million of us in america and um but there’s this very strange sort of almost winking state that we’ve all been walking around in not quite reality not quite surreality but it’s like when you force a child to go to a school that’s named after enslavers and human traffickers and rapists and um genocidal maniacs and anarchists and people that were responsible for a million american deaths and you’re supposed to sing songs to them i don’t know what history is going to

(18:40) call that yeah yeah what does that do to a person exactly yeah and also what what does that do to a country what is that like what does that do to the history books what is that that’s like there being schools in germany named after hitler and they’re singing about what a wonderful person hitler is absolutely there’s there’s really no difference like i mean like if you i mean there’s examples of it everywhere if you look at mount rushmore that literally is overlooking the pine ridge reservation

(19:07) for the sioux people those men are the people responsible for committing genocide on their ancestors and they have to wake up every day look at the mountain of the men who wanted them dead steering it we have a lot we have it’s like we don’t have a lot of work here i think we have one thing to do is dismantle white supremacy because it’s not it’s not that’s not what the country it’s it’s against the ideology of the country itself right if you if you look at like the civil war we we never

(19:37) we never dictated terms to the losing side right we never said hey this is what you got to do because you lost because you tried to overthrow the government and you know you you gotta you gotta pay something for that we just gave them their guns and their lands back and said you know figure out a way to enslave these people legally and they did through mass cars incarceration through something called the black codes which became the jim crow laws which means that i don’t know if you guys are aware of this but in 1865 um

(20:10) general william sherman issued special field order number 15 which was a land reservation approved by abraham lincoln for freed slaves for black americans so we had a reservation that went from charleston south carolina down to the middle of florida in 30 miles inland so like this is really valuable land um and it was given it was the land was given to till and to work for the black americans until they could buy it themselves and uh that lasted for two years and in the union army the american army came and removed those people forcefully

(20:47) put them in concentration camps and for the next five years about 200 000 black americans died in those concentration camps and so we covered that history up and it’s it’s really [ __ ] disgusting um because you’re basically because because racism is based in this it’s based in the foundation that the people that you kidnapped from their homes that you stole from their families most of them children by the way most of them the average age was 15 years old the people they stole from africa you have to put it into your mind that

(21:24) these are not human beings and they don’t matter and they don’t count if that’s that’s what racism is predicated on is that my ancestors were not human and they’re not worth a second look they’re not worth the second look that they were put in the concentration camps it’s not where the second look that they were raped at will or kidnapped will and murdered at will based on a myth and a lie in in the industrialization of commerce and so it’s almost like if your god is money sure you can become as rich as a king

(21:52) but you have to you have to destroy other people’s humanity what if what if there was a country that was doing what the colonies were doing today right let’s say let’s say for instance china were to go to colombia and kill all the colombians and then go to australia kidnap all the australians and make them work in colombia what would we call that what we said would we have a problem with the australians after that but we blame the australians for what happened it’s it’s a very strange thing i think what racists are really afraid

(22:33) of is people finding out the real history of america because once we find out the real history of america you know blm has a point it’s basically saying this is common decency for people who’ve never been afforded it and um i think it really scares racists that history may be the the that that causes this ideology to wilt right the truth is what will cause this ideology to will um and that’s why they’ve had to change the history and so i think it’s so funny when people say well you can’t erase

(23:05) history taking down the confederate monument like no no the reason the confederate my name is up is because history is already erased yeah that’s we’re trying to bring to light that you can’t make moral examples of human traffickers genociders or rapists yeah sorry are you all worried that this is just a moment and not a movement like things will go back at some point to how it was absolutely not hmm it’s the oppressed people who tell you what country you live in it’s not the people who are silent

(23:43) it’s not the people who are sitting on twitter protecting oppression it’s the oppressed people who had enough who tell you where you live that’s what happened in the french revolution what happened in the american revolution it’s what happens in every revolution throughout history it’s the oppressed people who say so the oppressed people are holding the map right because they’re the ones traveling somewhere we’re the ones trying to get somewhere so we’re holding the map and we’re saying

(24:12) oh no we’re here this is where we are and it doesn’t matter who’s with us who’s against us um at a certain point in time how did i put this so america has ignored itself into this situation this is the place america has ignored itself into further ignorance would be dangerous yeah not not coming from me that’s not a threat i’m just saying that’s history just read history if you push people to a point where they’re saying enough is enough if you can’t hear the words enough is enough how do you think that’s going to

(24:52) come out like um i um i’m a history buff right and um do you guys are you guys familiar with with ellie wiseau he’s a he’s a romanian born arthur author diet and american but he wrote about the holocaust wrote 56 books wow yeah i read eight of eight or nine of them and um [Music] my favorite author but by far my favorite elephant um but if i could have dinner with anybody in space time would be wesley and i would have a lot of questions for him and i would ask him i would say you know once once you felt the hate

(25:44) in the ether and it was palpable so palpable that it hurt your skin hurts your children’s ears and those accepted widely accepted and enforced uh uh through through policy and through uh societal interactions that it was okay to hit you and your people how did you deal with the chronic stress enough and then when you when they ghettoized you they and they locked you into into areas that were easily closed off and the water control was the water supply was easily controlled and the um population density increased and

(26:24) we know sociologically speaking with population density increasing we know that um quality of life goes down crime goes up uh health health goes down you know all that but they blamed you for it how did you deal with the crying stress of that when they blamed you for everything in society and they skateboarded you and your voice was muted so when you were yelling and screaming and saying this is horrible this has to stop enough is enough nobody heard you because your voice was so muted how did you deal with the chronic stress of that

(26:54) when you came out of your house and you you know you were hanging out in the street boys will be boys and you know you’re 12 13 years old and there’s no place to go in the middle there’s no parts so you’re hanging out on the street and then the romanian people the german people will walk by and they say oh the juice how did you deal with the disrespect of it when you came out your house and you saw people you knew laying dead in the street in a pool of their own blood having having been publicly executed in broad daylight in

(27:27) their own neighborhoods in front of people why to make an example that this person didn’t do anything but the gestapo brings up what they did four years ago or two years ago or six months ago but nothing that day yeah how did you how did you deal with the chronic stress of knowing that you could be next [Music] yeah and of course there’s this comparison i’m about to make is not at all the same but just for us and our listeners to to gain a perspective on a minute level right now there’s a there’s a phrase

(28:13) being thrown around in the midst of covet and the pandemic with covid um called caution fatigue where because of the the the outbreak here um everybody’s been on you know higher alert than they’ve ever been and for now a sustained what four months or so since we’ve been in this kind of lockdown era and that people are seeing just from that small in comparison to what you’re talking about here extra release of cortisol extra stressors that we’re having because of what’s going on here and all of the you

(28:48) know fear fearful thoughts that come with it we’re seeing all of us as a culture have to respond to that again which in a way is divine timing that’s one of the only one of the only reasons why everyone got so heated about george floyd is because everyone had been stressed pre-stressed yeah where we had to look at this i would say i would say that there’s there’s a lot of truth to that but i was also saying a small caveat um i think that i think what happened was a lot of a lot of our white family in america got

(29:24) something that i call cobit compassion so you were so the universe so mother earth wants us to stop disrespecting you yeah but we can’t do that until we stop disrespecting each other yeah um racism puts us in a perpetual state of existence and conflict that means that we can’t come together and cooperate on anything black people can’t care about coping you can’t care about the environment you can’t care about anything if you’re just trying yeah we can’t give a [ __ ] about any of that stuff no you’re in the survival

(30:02) mindset right now it’s not about getting deeper at this point not even right now what i’m saying is i think that a lot of people who were not in this chronic stress in this fight-or-flight state they experienced it for two months yeah and then all of a sudden they realized that black people experienced just 12 months yeah and they’re like wait hold on we can’t now that i know what this feels like right for a moment yeah because when you hear it you can go oh you know when you see it you go oh that’s [ __ ]

(30:41) horrible oh my god we gotta do something and then you’re like what do you want for dinner right your life goes on yeah you’re like okay man george floyd but when you feel it when you feel the cons like when you you’re you’re sitting at home you’re going i’m safer inside if i go outside i might die for no reason um i don’t trust the government i don’t trust what anybody’s telling me that’s how we always feel right yeah 24 hours a day that’s true [Music] yeah so when you say is this is this gonna

(31:17) fizzle out no it’s not because there’s we don’t have another option yeah yeah we are at the end of you know america has pushed black people to a cliff and told us to build our dreams there what happens to the dream it either falls off that cliff or it falls on top of the people who are pushing you but we’re not gonna let it crush us it’s just not gonna we can’t like you know crippling oppression doesn’t lead to a dinner party yeah and i that reminds me that i loved the way that you described and broke down

(31:52) privilege can you can you share some of that with our listeners sure um privilege is a human experience so it’s it’s it’s your human condition it’s a state of being you’re so i was born to male privilege right however i don’t have racial privilege so i can i can look at so if somebody comes to me and says toxic masculinity that’s a non-starter right now i think i’m not gonna mansplain what they mean but i will say this what i i think a better way to approach that is that macad perhaps you haven’t looked at how much

(32:33) power you actually have as a man in this country and you can help change things for women and have more compassion for their experiences for their stories and how they’re under appreciated and undervalued in our society yeah creating an invitation instead of blaming i can hear that i can hear that and i can do something about that and i i i receive that invitation in an indirect way uh through my mother about five years ago and um so i think i think when you approach the conversation of privilege to people most

(33:10) people approach that conversation from an angry standpoint or a disappointing standpoint for a heart standpoint defensive yeah well i think when people approach you oh the person who’s bringing it up yeah they’re worried for sure because they don’t have it they want a privilege like yeah and like but the thing is when you run from when you’re defensive and you run from privilege the problem is this you’re not you’re not accepting your own human condition in your own human experience right

(33:40) so if people are making you feel bad about your own human condition and your own and you don’t want to be responsible well you’re not you’re not you’re not responsible for the position in which you were born so here’s privilege privilege is um that person’s ancestors some of them good people some of them bad people set up a system in which benefited unfairly and disproportionately benefited their descendants that’s all it is that’s what it is it’s the condition in which you were born too

(34:13) nobody’s no nobody doesn’t blame for that so once you understand that’s what it is it becomes power access an unmuted voice um access to the levers of change um something that you are able to use as social currency to change to alleviate the suffering of others so i i i’m coining this term positive privilege which is people understanding their own power and i think that’s what i meant by responsibility yeah yeah and i think what happens is this and let’s let’s break down responsibility because really it’s two

(34:49) words it’s your response [Music] it’s your ability to respond to any to anything that’s put before you so privilege is put before you the human condition of being privileged is put before you what is your ability to respond to that knowing that because of your privilege because of the system you were born into it is unfairly disadvantaged to other people it uh chips away at their safety and security quality of life right and their mental health so knowing that that’s what it is we can flip the conversation to

(35:28) believe the fact that you have that much power yeah so i think i think what it is is like people have been lied to about their own power you’ve been told that you don’t have it but you do you do and so when someone says i’m oh you’re privileged we go well i’m not privileged i had to work hard for all of this but the reality is that if we could just say oh actually it empowers me because if i accept the fact that i am privileged because now i can do something positive with it listen i have economic privilege

(35:58) because i i worked really hard and i got it i have male privilege because that’s that’s that’s the condition that’s the human condition in which i was born to i do not have racial privilege and it’s a very difficult thing that male privilege kind of gets canceled out in some ways you know in some ways it doesn’t that economic privilege gets cancelled out in some ways and in some ways it doesn’t but if you are born into our society with if you’re born into our society as a white male

(36:34) you have a normal life that’s just what it is you have a normal life you might work you might have worked really hard you might be from a poor family you might have a long and winding road but your road is not an obstacle course filled with booby traps that can kill you at any point in time or diminish your well-being your dignity your decency and your mental health the bar is already set relatively above all everyone else you know it’s got of course you’re saying it has its own levels within the white men born right you know at this

(37:09) time we can just look at it like this like look at life as a road right so that that road may go up and down it may be very hilly maybe winding it may be snaky it may go around the lagoon it may be a hard hard road to drive but it’s just a road there’s bombs and grenades right in cops and um and obstacle course and booby traps are mine and on yours because you’re women right so it’s like privilege is really just it’s a state of being and i think once people start realizing their own personal power

(37:48) it’s hard to believe but white people in this generation in this generation have the ability have the heroic invitation the heroic invitation of actually being one of the heroes of the civil rights movement and alleviating the suffering of tens of millions of people why would you not want to take that why would you not want to be part of the greatest generation like why would you not want to take the spiritual invitation the greatest spiritual invitation ever awkward it’s never been on the table never been on

(38:18) the table we have to ask ourselves a question peer-to-peer not to our government do we want systems of crippling oppression to continue to exist and that’s the question that we that we can all ask ourselves and the people who have privilege have the most power to stop that but what i think america is has always banked on is to is to make people feel powerless yeah and that’s yeah and even like people being able to say i stay out of politics that’s a privilege and and people that can hear this conversation and go on about their day

(38:56) and not think about everything you’re saying that’s a privilege that you don’t have it’s a normal life and it’s a privilege that that a lot of people don’t even they say like oh i stay out of politics and they don’t realize they’re in saying that they’re saying they’re privileged right you know well it’s also it’s also very and obviously i’ll just be 100 honest because that’s just that’s what i do um making a humanitarian effort political is creating a veil that protects

(39:26) your that protects you from taking a look at your own racial bias there’s nothing political about treating people with decency yeah there’s nothing political about removing the obstructions that well i wonder if it does it is it a little political because i’m wondering if it’s different in germany they don’t have statutes of hitler they have monuments to the jews here it’s the opposite and i’m wondering if it’s because keeping it that way and keeping people of color poor it keeps it like it keeps

(39:57) them rich you know it keeps it keeps that divide and that that is so it is a kind of a political agenda or not what i’m saying is they have made human decency a political thing oh i see yeah and people and people who who who buy into that veil are using that veil to not have to look at the darkness inside of themselves yeah right they’re they’re using that veil to not have to look at their own um inconsistent human um uh their own inconsistencies of humanity and how they look and so if you think about it like i i think i

(40:39) think if racist people or mainstream america frankly ever came to terms with the history just the history just the facts of how it’s treated black people and people of color in particular but black people in particular then they would have to cut they would have to come to a reckoning of who they are yeah they have to be like okay well who does that make me [ __ ] see the thing mcconnell i feel like we have a big dissonance amongst our fellow man right now and i know you’ve brought this up in a conversation i’ve witnessed before um

(41:21) i think with corey allen where we have this need for empathy in order for us to get all on the same page of of collectively wanting unity which is a lot of what you’re speaking about here right which is obvious it seems obvious that’s what the direction we should all want to go this is going to be great for all of us it sounds amazing then we have this piece of us like you spoke to toxic masculinity we have this piece of us that says well don’t feel your feelings because that’s what our culture says it’s you know not good to

(41:51) do it’s just it’s not productive it’s not glorifying busy the way we all do if we start stop and start feeling our feelings so we have this big divide that is created in in mainstream america because we are not allowing um that part of our character we have suppressed the part of us the feminine part of us you know you could name it that way if you wanted that says hey take a look at how you’re treating your fellow man and feel it as if it was you because it is you yeah and and i mean that’s perfectly but like i think

(42:28) another way to say that is like to your point i should say the feminine um i don’t believe in divine feminine divine masculine i believe that that’s that’s uh our own gender bias the words are yeah and the binary thing is tough all of its stuff it’s weird right like it’s like it’s like it’s like uh we have to do we have to structure divinity into has to be polarizing again yeah and i i think what happened was i think the reason we do that is because we discredited things that women were

(43:01) excelling in uh after the reformation about 500 years ago we said intuition [ __ ] um nurturing [ __ ] compassion [ __ ] things that women leadership right we’re excelling in throughout history we we uh we minimized and we we diminished the value of it and so we don’t look at our feelings right we don’t we’re not intuitive we’re not we’re not compassionate we don’t see another human being uh when someone says enough is enough or my life matters we go well let’s argue about the subtle

(43:35) nuances of the words that you used yeah right rather than going bro there’s a human being in front of me right yelling yelling that his life or her life matters right yeah well how did we get there so instead of even having that conversation it’s it’s more about intellect and logic and rationality which is which is what the reformation the pulse of consciousness the reformation created right and started to value as as this as the metric of [Music] macho is i mean it’s a it’s like enoughness it’s like okay well that’s

(44:10) the level you have the standard human value of human value right and like and so we didn’t value a lot of the things that that that the feminine nature had pursued and we devalue those things so that they they wouldn’t have a place in society but i i i strongly believe kobe is is trying to balance that out right like i strongly believe mother earth wants that she wants more intuition yeah she wants she wants intuition to be valued like intellect as it should be absolutely should be 100 it is it’s balancing i mean it’s

(44:48) intellects balancing other i mean it’s it’s necessary to have both yeah there there’s i mean we could dive so much deeper into that and what else came up for me while we were discussing um how to help people understand uh the plight here and i don’t even know if that’s the right word but the way that you know mainstream america is trying to process this and i know that process is a also tricky word because it asks for more patience and more burdening of the same people that are already the ones taking

(45:29) on the burden of this whole thing for their entire lives and generations generations before um but one way to maybe further illustrate it that came to mind so i’m just going to say is when we think about the amazonian rainforest for instance and we think about the farmers there that are uh selling their land to turn it into cattle farms for american meat you know or european meat to be farmed on and this type of thing and the world looks at that the the people who are in environmental you know trying to protect the environment trying to

(46:06) protect what we call the amazon we call the amazon the lungs of the world so worried about how many football fields worth of jungle is being destroyed and how much how much oxygen we’re not going to have because of that and going you know how can these farmers be selling off their land and the farmers in the amazon are going i can barely feed my [ __ ] kids tonight i’m living in a fight or flight state i am living from this more primal mind because i have to i have no other choice i was not born with the privilege

(46:38) to be in a place you know in america and sit back and look at at the amazon and go well you’re doing it wrong and look at the farmer in the amazon and say well you’re doing it wrong it’s like how i mean and then we judge that and that’s where we we grow that dissonance of like using the logic and the intellect like you’re saying but not using the empathy and the intuition of like what is this farmer actually experiencing and i i’m just bringing that up because for me it illustrating this from a different point

(47:08) sometimes helps it helps me get to the end of it perfect analogy perfect analogy it’s it’s it is speaking from a position of of expertise when you know nothing about the subject right and and you haven’t taken the time to be compassionate or or um empathetic about someone’s situation and once once you once you take a look at what they’re going through or take a look at what or actually even like listen to their concerns yeah really listen listening is something we’re not good at in this culture at all

(47:44) like actually what that is no we have to rediscover we have to rediscover the art of listening i think i think we’re getting there i think we’re getting there i hope so i think i’ve i’ve seen examples of people listening more intently in the last two to three months than i’ve ever seen right yeah i agree my life but their world had to get a little quieter they had to be stuck inside not be able to go to the movies or music shows so no distraction yeah and i i once and once again to touch on that on that kobe compassion

(48:23) um sound bite is uh the ancient brain was massaged for the first time in thousands of years and at least at least for at least for western culture and it was like wait a second what’s important is survival that’s that’s weird [Music] yeah we have been cruising and coasting for a long time and all of a sudden we’re like wait we’re not safe this is chaos the world is chaos it always has been it always will be and we have to be able to hold it yeah and i don’t think i don’t think that and

(48:54) i think you’re right except for i don’t think i don’t think it always has to be so i i saw it so this is there’s a there’s a sanskrit phrase called chitanonga right and sanskrits are prayers so you say in when you pray you say things in the order in which they should be accomplished means uh existence [ __ ] is consciousness and ananda’s bliss and so the more i study sanskrit i’m realizing there’s a reason that they said it in that order so we’re in a state of existence and we have existence

(49:29) it’s a hell of an existence we make it hard to experience that existence because we add difficulty weight to that existence so i think we’re go we’re leaving the state of existence into the state of consciousness we’re leaving the state of existential beings and becoming conscious beings and i think we’re going to start expressing ourselves as conscious beings and the more people like you and i have the three of us have this conversation uh the more people let your listeners go out and talk to i

(49:59) think that we’re going to be stepping out of the state of existence because what is existence it’s existing it’s just not dying right yeah it’s coasting like you say right but what’s the state of consciousness that’s i think the state say that again it’s enriching the existence enriching yeah and i think though to speak to your point about the suffering that comes with existence the suffering to me is the way we alchemize getting to consciousness you know or that’s how it’s been experienced in my

(50:36) life is like and now i can even recognize like why i’m in this deep suffering i’m like all right girl let’s go all the way in because i know i know now that at the other side of it if i don’t resist it as much i have more grace and ease getting through it but i still suffer and i still have to suffer it feels like to get to the other side it’s the same thing it’s the same thing with the sociological body consciousness right it’s the same thing with the collective consciousness yeah but the

(51:03) collective consciousness wants to heal from the last 500 years of hatred and bigotry vitriol it wants to heal from that it had a traumatic intervention yeah that was called the industrialization of commerce or the transatlantic slave trade that wasn’t good for the collective consciousness that was horrible for it that was a that was a really damaging time for it and i’d like to think it’s part of its adolescence right like i think that human beings are going to be here for a very very long time but

(51:31) that’s up to us to us and so i think that we’re getting to a place where in the adulthood of our collective consciousness like this this we can’t do this we have to step out of the state of being existential beings into the state of uh conscious beings and then that will lead us you know i think a few centuries from now maybe millennia from now into blissful beings and like that’s that’s what we have to do for not just for our children but for i don’t know how people can look at their descendants

(52:08) and just feel an overwhelming sense of love for them right the people who are going to be here 400 years from now they’re only here because you we did this right right and then if we don’t do this right there’s not going to be any left you’re talking though from a place of uh an amount of consciousness that ever even has a glimpse of seeing what our descendants might look like ever seeing that there is a possibility for that i think many people i think the majority of us are living from a much more finite future you know within our

(52:47) lifespan really and you’re also talking i know just from listening to other toxic or is it not really from a place of linear time you’re talking from a different place which is you know something i do think the paradigm shift you’re talking about of consciousness and coming to or back to a more collective uh state of consciousness i think is when we sit with the truth you know when we really dig down deep and decide who we are and what we are and we get to the bottom of the existential questions and

(53:19) and and it’s not even of course ever answering the existential question but getting to the best question we can make right yeah um when we get there we then feel the kind of epiphany that you’re talking about of like oh [ __ ] like my existence is critical for all generations to come it’s critical for all the generations that were before me because it was their hope that i would be where i am and and transforming and transmuting and becoming this other thing so holding all that is the bliss you know that you’re talking about how do we

(53:53) get people to have that moment of momentary bliss because you only need a couple moments you know in your lifetime really to hold on to and inspire you to do your life’s purpose your life’s mission and serve others outside of psychedelics yeah i mean we could talk about that too because not everybody’s willing to do that yeah yeah and i i understand and i yeah like i mean i’m i’m of both schools of thought like i think that psychedelics are cheap code right and i love cheat codes [Laughter]

(54:26) i’m all for the cheat codes however not everybody’s going to play play the game right yeah people who aren’t playing the game of cheat codes i think that they have to rediscover the art of doing nothing presence yeah yes presence and when you sit in silence you connect to the center of your center what does it matter what you thought five minutes ago doesn’t matter what you thought about your life doesn’t matter what ideas and and games and veils that you have been engaged in or that you’re seeing through

(55:02) there’s just this presence of gravity and love in structure that’s at the center of your center it’s 14.5 billion years of divine evolution running through the center of your century and you know you know what’s moral you know what feels right right that is the truth at the end you know it yeah there’s there’s this very very simple truth that the foundation so i i truly believe that when we decided to come back into these bodies and um cultivate this planet we agreed that it would be founded in love the

(55:46) foundation had to be loved and the farther we get away from that love the more conflict we have the more we find ourselves the more we don’t know who we are the more we have bad people in our lives the more we um attract the wrong people in relationships the more we physically fight each other the more we oppress each other the more we go to war with each other it happens on a macro scale on a microscope so like i i think that just centering yourself and finding that universal gravitational system of love so i

(56:29) believe gravity and love are the same thing like what else attracts something throughout the universe and holds it what is this metaphysical sort of multi-dimensional power that’s able to pull something and hold it what’s that called in your normal life when you pull something to you and you just it’s just there it’s you’re attracted to it right and it’s attracted to you that’s love yeah so the the force of gravity to me is love it’s what holds the universe together and so once you’re once you

(57:04) really get in touch with the center of your center and that’s that is the ground that is a thin piece of gravity that is running through the body you feel the love from the universe stabilizing you stabilizing you on the planet stabilizing you in on this ball throughout space and time and there’s a lot of um the more you sit in silence the more you sit in presence there’s so much information that comes back to you that we um intuition um empathy all these things that we’ve we’ve overlooked and it’s just the simplest answer is

(57:39) that the three of us on this call are just different expressions of the same thing yeah that’s what we are and if you want to fight about that we can but why the [ __ ] would we waste our time why would we do that why don’t we figure out why don’t we try when we try to use that same energy to figure out why the three of us are so different from the same expression and figure that out we’re going to colonize mars in four years are you telling me that i have to explain to my grandson if you fit for portuguese politics and

(58:11) explain to him why he’s not welcome on two planets right that has to stop you got to stop that yeah what words do you have for those who who they they do feel all this in their center and they know that this is a humanitarian crisis but they’re so scared to say something wrong or they don’t feel like they have anything good enough to say to enlighten anybody on it that they’re just staying silent i would then i would say that they don’t understand that it’s a humanitarian crisis hmm that’s good

(58:43) you you can’t you can’t you can’t know that something’s a humanitarian crisis and it stays up or you can but then that makes you a certain type of person with a certain type of consciousness if you know if you know that this is a humanitarian crisis and you go well i don’t want to piss off some of my racist friends or i don’t want to piss off i don’t want to say the wrong thing well you can’t say the wrong thing it’s all [ __ ] up right i think that’s the focus is it is messy yeah like this is messy it’s

(59:16) not going to be perfect choose progress over perfection like every time just say that mantra over and over to yourself yeah i love that i’m write that down i i did so i’m starting i’m starting a podcast yeah i love i love you guys do it i um my first guest um [Music] is the lady is her name is joyce ross she is the auschwitz survivor who showed up to the blm protests in outside of chicago cool wow and i asked her i said you know why did you why did you show up to the blm protest you’re 97 years old

(59:58) right like i hope i’m out like moving like wow where’d it go miss joyce yeah and i and i asked her i said why did you why did you what what compelled you to get up your living room and go and she said well when i saw that knee on mr floyd’s neck i knew that they were back that’s what they did to us and they said wow and and to me and we had a 35 minute conversation and then towards the end of the conversation i i asked the question they said do you think and this is all going to be the contest

(1:00:32) do you think that if the good polish people she’s polish good polish people the good german people if they had taken a stand they had done something said something she goes it never would have happened [Music] she goes people just kind of went on with their lives not really knowing what to do she was like and that’s what that’s what scares me now yeah this can never happen again and it’s it wasn’t me making the comparison i saw her at the blm rally and i started crying because i i had made the comparisons in

(1:01:07) my own head but like in this country you’re not really allowed to do that publicly right because i think we have i think all ethnicities have trouble communicating an atrocity that’s specifically happening to them across ethnic lines right we have trouble communicating things that specifically happen to ethnic groups across ethnic lines period but in particular things that aren’t happening to other people right right it’s very hard to describe that and how bad that is to other people and you know native american people

(1:01:47) have the word genocide and um armenian our armenian brothers and sisters have the word genocide and our our jewish brothers and sisters have a couple words holocaust and anti-semitism you know there’s this when your atrocity is that bad right you have a word it’s labeled right yeah i think i think the problem that black america has is that we don’t have a word yet but it’s time for the global community to acknowledge that we deserve the word yeah we deserve a word that’s how bad it that’s how bad it’s been because it

(1:02:29) acknowledges it yeah yeah that’s how and it protects you it protects you from it like so it’s it’s a flag sorry it’s a it’s a sword it’s a shield and it’s a flag right it’s a sword that you can use against somebody and go you’re a racial oppression denier so i don’t have to [ __ ] listen to you what else do you do what else do you deny throughout history mm-hmm do you have a word that you want to use for it there’s there’s a word that came out of a think tank about a month ago called me nick

(1:03:01) [Music] and there’s something really disgusting and vile and sick about the infatuation that white supremacy has with blackness right there’s something there’s something there like cutting off the breath cutting off the the oxygen cutting off the voice cutting off the blood to the brain there’s something there’s something there about that and the knee necking actually comes from the roman empire it’s like the roman legionnaires would kneel on the slaves next and it was it happened again in viking

(1:03:41) culture it happened again in english culture and it happened it happened again in nazi culture it’s happening again now and it really is time to for the world to acknowledge that we need a word so when you tell me or you or you ask me am i afraid that this will be um this movement will fizzle out no i’m afraid of other things i’m afraid of where this crippling oppression lead in 10 years [Music] you know there’s i’ve done the math because you got four or five options and only two of those are peaceful

(1:04:21) and one of those is making sure that another one doesn’t happen right and that’s why this won’t fizzle out because you know their options are no good for nobody right and on that you know we spoke on on those who are being silent those who do want to be a hero in this story what are their action steps well one is is becoming part of your human community seeing seeing the person who doesn’t look like you who has a different experience so here’s the thing if you don’t believe people who are out in the

(1:04:57) street crying laying on the ground saying i can’t breathe saying enough is enough yelling from the top of the lungs you can’t hear their ancestors screaming for their skin you can’t hear their voices well racial oppression deniers never do do that people who want to protect depression never hear the voices of the oppressed do that how do we bring them around you have to ask yourself who you are all right there’s there’s one race there’s two tribes there’s people who want to who want to end the oppression

(1:05:35) and there’s people who want to protect it if you don’t believe that oppression is happening you are protecting it right the conversation’s over discussion is over we’re not going to discuss whether it’s happening or not that that’s that’s a ploy that’s a tactic that’s a that’s a tactic of psychological warfare that’s been used throughout time to diminish the voice of the person being oppressed and it’s really a logical fallacy it’s just it’s looping it’s not we’re not getting it

(1:06:06) it’s gas lighting it’s gas lighting it’s like you okay so let’s let’s just let’s just break it down in the most simple way possible george floyd was publicly executed in his own neighborhood he was not murdered he was pulled from the car put in front of the vehicle and kneeled on by four guys four big men and one had his knee on his neck and we saw the whole thing we went out to get into it but broad daylight over wasn’t resisting the rest nothing broad daylight almost so nonchalantly

(1:06:49) that it looked like the murderer felt like the executioner felt like well you got to put these animals out of their misery hmm right dehumanizing a person in such a way where i can publicly execute them with a smile on my face my hand in my pocket and dig my neck into it and dig my knee into his neck and then the country has a conversation about if that matters that is where we are so when you see that happening and more so more distressing when you see the conversation the debate that happens after that if that matters

(1:07:38) we’re in a new place so that is my question what what so all that you’ve just explained that is where we are as you said and it’s maddening of course in a lot of ways but that is where we are as a collective so how do we at this point be and especially people of color how do people of color continue to have patience in the midst of watching non black people uh come around you know like still waiting for that to happen it’s a burden they’ve already had for generations it’s like okay well great great we’re

(1:08:22) having the conversation now but it’s like why are we even having you know it’s frustrating like why are we even having that part of the conversation that we already know is completely spelled out and we should be moving on to the part of how we resolve this thing but we we’re still stuck here and it’s like how much patience do we give to this and so that is the question how do we how do we do that well i think there’s two parts to that and so obviously black people and people of color obviously are not a monolithic

(1:08:49) group i can’t speak for all of them but i can say this i’m a millionaire and i’m and my patience is running the average black family makes 17 000 a year hmm what do you think their patience is it’s gone non-existent it’s gone so white supremacists have unleashed their psychopaths on black people for over 400 years and most of white america in most of america period no matter what color you are has pretty much ignored that um large large in large part not not completely with a large part and the black world has never hit back

(1:09:49) we’ve had patience we’ve had compassion we’ve had um forgiveness transcendent compassion transcendent forgiveness tran it’s been transcending we’ve had these dumb conversations time in and time again for decades for a century we’ve been saying this is a humanitarian crisis for over a century we’ve been saying that yeah without a choice and no one listens because our voices are so muted so how do we have more patience i don’t know like i i don’t know how somebody could have what’s the other option yeah i know

(1:10:26) yeah the other option is the other options are trying something different and like you know i mean you have you have peaceful versions of that which look like refugee status you know which is very embarrassing united states but it is what it is like you have to you have to do what’s best for your family and i know that those talks are already starting you know sadly those those talks have already started with um i won’t say what countries because i’m not allowed to yet but i i i know that those talks have already

(1:11:00) started in in some some places and it’s it’s more about how many can be let in and but like in about two weeks you guys might hear about this it might be international news that that there are some countries that are willing to offer a refugee status to black americans which is that’s where we’re at that’s right um and there’s another one where you know there’s a school of thought where black people and anti-racists no matter what color you are or just saying let’s boycott the economy let’s boycott

(1:11:34) anybody who’s not actively and staunchly anti-racist because we don’t know if our money’s gonna be going to white supremacy we don’t actually know so there’s people creating infrastructures to aid that cause um but i think the patience is i don’t think there’s i don’t think there is anymore like i like yeah i i have transcended patience my family has transcended patients but my mom’s at the point now where she wants to leave america right you know um i have a i have family members look my family

(1:12:10) my great grandfather was killed by the nypd sorry let me let me start at the beginning my great-grandmother was a refugee from florida in georgia to new york a refugee in her own country because she was tired of being raped and having her house burned down in the south and she came from a native american reservation so she hitchhiked and walked to harlem in 1915.

(1:12:41) wow she got there she married a man half irish half black man who was eventually killed by the police leaving her with seven children wow and two of her children were killed by the police and then another one of our children was killed by a white mob and her sister had her fetus cut from her body at a party as an entertainer so when you talk about patience we’ve had it we’ve had patients we we we were chandeliers at parties where they would hang us at parties and stick candles inside of us if we were sick they would

(1:13:22) they i mean when you find out the history of what america has done and allowed allowed to happen to to my family and to to people who look like me it’s almost like you’re astounded by the patients you’re astounded by the forgiveness it almost looks like we look weak right but it’s it’s it’s that we knew that there have been so many massacres there’s been so many massacres that these people don’t talk about there was 300 people killed in one day in tulsa in 1921. there was uh there was a thousand

(1:13:59) black people killed in the summer of 1919 32 32 white terrorist attacks there was over 100 people killed in one day in rosewood and every single time that we’ve had black communities that have done well and self-aggrandized white supremacists have bombed them literally bombed them sometimes from the air in airplanes 1921 they used airplanes to bomb tulsa because they didn’t like the fact that there was relatively black people there this is real this has happened to us time in and time out and so when you ask the question about

(1:14:35) patience i don’t have an answer for you but i can tell you i can tell you on the other side what what what what why people who want to help can do is listen believe us and that’s what’s so frustrating about people posting that black black lives matter is a leftist lie because there’s there’s history to prove that it’s not a leftist lie so it’s so mind-boggling that that’s even a popular thought right now well it’s once again what it does is is is it allows it it it relinquishes them of any

(1:15:16) responsibility of having to look at their own racial bias it’s it’s the easy way out right it’s the easy way out of saying his attorney the the multi-dimensional experience of being black of america is that you love your country somehow you still love this country right but you also [ __ ] hate it like for what it’s done to you what it continues to do to you how it treats you how it doesn’t believe you how how it’s how it i think history history will will refer to this as a well-structured genocide

(1:16:05) slow move a slow-moving genocide i think history history will refer to this as that once you start to put the numbers together you can’t say well it’s not that because you know it’s been 400 years and that’s just what it is and like but add the numbers up tell the families that tell tell the families that lost um uh the the breadwinner tell them i found me that they lost a breadwinner in the 1930s because he got arrested for driving and then they killed them so you have to you have to start thinking

(1:16:38) about like how the the the abusive relationship america has had with black people and that has to be repaired i think that people who are saying oh this is a leftist lie listen it’s not just don’t want to admit that there needs to be repair this has to be repaired so you can’t move forward as a country unless you repair the past right yeah and it’s the same thing it’s one in the same you a lot of people are using statistics to support the racially biased view but you also think about who’s making those

(1:17:14) statistics you know as well yeah the thing about statistics is this like for whatever whatever statistic you can find i can find one and also you may you may use those statistics but like it’s it’s also the culture you brought them up in it’s what was forced upon you know these communities yeah so so when people show me the statistics they go i go yes yes that’s the yes problem what you just brought up that’s the problem it’s the consciousness thing somebody looks at the statistic and they go well look at the statistic this is

(1:17:51) horrible you know and they go it’s the people’s fault who were who were engulfed in the statistic i go no no how did we get there yeah it’s like a baby it’s like a baby that only knows how to crawl and they have four toys in the room and they crawl to the one that’s closest it’s like that’s that’s what we’ve done to these communities we put them in crime-ridden communities we keep them poor and then sociological factor like when you when you when you when you have under service

(1:18:18) communities crime goes up when you have desperation crime goes up theory that’s that’s social like it’s so i think it’s really interesting that it’s hard to it’s hard for america sometimes to um how to put this it’s hard for america sometimes to attribute human behavior to black people like you throw people in a situation where they can’t get out you redline them so they can’t get out of the hood they’re stuck in a situation where they’re severely oppressed and suppressed and their voices are muted

(1:18:54) and then so what happens they feel desperate right right and like so crime goes up quality life goes down um you know life expectancy goes down these are sociological factors these are human factors yeah right this happens to every group of people that you put into that situation right so it’s almost as if it’s just it’s such a racist trope to to to use numbers and statistics without looking at the historical factors that got you to those statistics and it’s a level of consciousness it’s like

(1:19:31) you’re looking at the same chart and grab and you’re saying it’s the people it’s their fault but you’re acting as if that life isn’t that that’s kind of what candace owen was saying too which makes it also fuels people’s racial bias and agenda because they’re able to say well she’s a person of color the people who i love this question the people who use candace owens as their as their response are ignoring the other 40 million voices yeah just because it’s like the same thing

(1:20:09) and if you’re going to listen to candice owens and say like maybe she’s educated and you’re educating yourself then you’ve also got to read books like white fertility like you can’t just educate yourself on that side and then choose to not hear the other side of it right and well i mean here’s the thing let’s be honest about candy songs that’s not even a side she’s making [ __ ] up she’s half of the numbers that she’s talking about are made up they’re just made up

(1:20:35) she just made them up like she can’t like i’ve i had a friend who interviewed the other day asking her where she got her numbers from she couldn’t say it so it’s like she’s just making [ __ ] up and that’s what most people are doing when they’re talking about statistics once again when you’re talking about statistics who paid for the research right it’s who does it benefit right and and whatever statistic you can find i can likely find another statistic that’s so particular

(1:21:03) that it can it can negate your statistic the question i ask people is this when you show me a chart and graph why do you blame the people that are affected by the chart and graph rather than all the historical factors that led up to that chart and graph being true even even if it’s let’s say it’s true let’s say there’s horrible numbers are true some of them are some of them not what led up to the historic what are the historical factors that led up to that chart and graph being an issue and like if you if you can’t if you’re

(1:21:33) looking at a chart and graph in a vacuum okay yes you’re cherry-picking and you don’t have a point right there’s all kinds of holes in that logic and it and i don’t even like using the word logic because again it needs to be balanced with the intuition and consciousness um i want to explore what all were we’ve discussed really thus far about how we go about helping people get to a place on their journey and coming back to the patients piece of being patient enough with someone who isn’t

(1:22:12) you know very far maybe on this journey and who has got a lot of road to cover ahead of them um how do we set the stage for that to happen better how have you since you’ve been now having a lot of conversations about this in recent times especially uh publicly how have you gone about inviting the public who’s willing to actually listen um to come along instead of creating more of that dissonance that happens whenever we you know doing the good guy bad guy like my stepbrother does not believe in privilege and if i

(1:22:49) get angry at him and just you know make him the bad guy because he doesn’t see what’s really happening he’s not what what change is that gonna happen your cause well i mean i i think one of the things that um so the question is mostly about how do we how do we get people who were i really want to know from you from a personal on a personal level how have how have you noticed yourself evolving in the way that you’re able to uh like we started this conversation out with invite people to come to this

(1:23:21) realization maybe not dehumanizing the people who aren’t realizing it you know well that’s part of the process probably but yeah what has been your experience in that that part of the journey of like getting people to come over with their own growth and consciousness as opposed to using force to you know push people or shu and then they dig deeper into their boots of bias if i were to tell you sorry person x if somebody were to walk up to you and say i think zebras are better than horses you would say what

(1:24:07) i mean i could say a lot of different things but i could say okay [Laughter] yeah you say okay now that person was saying i think that we should because i think zebras are so much better than horses i think we should hurt and kill zebras i don’t think that’s quite on par with my own what would you call that what would you call that person uh someone who wants to create segregation men mentally no no no no no no i’m talking about the person who they’re not segregating zebras and horses they want to hurt

(1:24:47) do you call that person mentally fit no if if if this person and millions of others were like yeah i think you’re right let’s hurt and kill the zebras or the horses and let’s let’s let’s let’s create systems where the horses can’t live normal horse lives but the zebras yeah they’re so beautiful they’re so great let’s let’s let’s let’s put them on pencils and let’s feed them well and let’s let’s give them certain types of advantages so that they can

(1:25:19) grow into progress into these beautiful animals and these other ones let’s let’s let’s slaughter them and let’s let’s do these other things to them because uh let’s suppress them and and and hurt them and destroy the quality of their lives and not allow them to be uh not allow them to gallop or have the full extent of their experience i think you would call those people delusion [Music] yeah so when we replace zebras and horses with skin color why do we lose the delusional aspect of that that’s so true well i think it’s

(1:25:54) because the the first part of that analogy is is it a zebra walking up to a zebra is it a horse walking up to a zebra you know like who who are the two communing over this who are having the conversation because then it becomes this tribal instinctual well [ __ ] i don’t want to be part of the group that’s going to get hurt i’d want to be part of the quote-unquote you know winning group and that is is unfortunately a part of our human you know nature which i think a lot of us are hoping that as the paradigm shifts

(1:26:26) we shift that almost out of ourselves i would startly disagree with that that is not part of a human nature that’s part of our sociological nature yeah i agree but it’s not part of it’s not part of our human nature so my point my point in bringing up the like the the equiday example is this the only difference between a zebra and a horse is where they’re from and how they look right if the fact it means that you want to hurt suppress oppress destroy name and kill the other one that makes you [ __ ]

(1:26:58) crazy yeah we know that makes you crazy when it comes to equiday we know that makes you crazy when it comes to koalas versus grizzly bear we know that we know that makes you crazy when it comes to anything else but when you say skin tone we go well it’s you know this is subtle no it’s the same thing and it’s it’s almost like you wanted to have a term and it’d be knee neck i i wish that was great yeah i wish that racism was a term that was considered to be a mental illness well i think i think in 10 years we i

(1:27:33) think we’ll look back and we will classify racism as a mental illness it is it is it is textbook delusional disorder it is so continuing on in that that process of how do we allow people to grow and become conscious in this situation what are your thoughts on cancer culture and um at what point is that a reasonable response i i think that 2019 we were all about cancer culture i think 2020 earth canceled culture for us and it said how do you like it and um to to to mesh this answer and the last one together i’m not saying you should cancel

(1:28:21) delusional people i’m saying you should treat them like a delusion and they need help they need care they need respect they need they need compassion but they also don’t need to be engaged yeah at a certain point in time when you argue with somebody who’s delusional you become part of the delusion now if you know that human beings are equal because that’s just what it is then why are you arguing why are you trying to convince them there’s no need history will convince them history will prove them wrong

(1:28:59) so i’m telling anti-racists save your breath save your energy savior save your time we there’s people who i call like you know swinging voters i think people have swing consciousness right and there’s some people who are just delusional they’re never going to get it they’re just never going to get it or there’s so much on this they’re so sheepish that they won’t get it until everybody else gets it right and that’s just what it is that’s human nature right that we have we have certain

(1:29:28) people we have ancestors we came from two ancestors one was a seeker one was a dweller one went outside the cage one stayed in one one went over to the horizon looked over saw a fruitful valley and was like yo guys it’s not bad over here the other one was like no i like the structure of the game we have these puppet shows we do on the wall and no no life is about this puppet show life is about the structure that i’ve created in cave and we had an ancestor who walked who built an instrument and played it in cave for

(1:29:58) thousands of years but then one day one ancestor she walked out to the field and played the harp in the field and it helps others bring bring their hearts and their music out and play it in public no matter what was out there no matter what dangers made happen to her she did that so we have those people with the same dna here we have seekers and we have dwellers and there’s a time for consciousness to seek and it’s time for consciousness to to dwell and we have dwelled long enough and so seniors don’t have to convince brothers

(1:30:34) to be seekers you don’t have to do that you just have to be a seeker you just have to be who you are and people call that courageous they call that you’re just your curiosity outweighs your fear so again when when we come up you know this we say this is a messy conversation we’re going to choose progress over perfection um when we come up against cancer cancer culture does it like if someone is and the question is where it where does harm become irrevocable right like where is it draw the line maybe is the better question

(1:31:11) but we have this culture of uh and it seems to be growing right now especially of that per you know focus on what this person did wrong and then what happens is the shaming and the things that happen there which are necessary to a degree but cause that person to stunt their growth at that place really to a degree yeah i i i don’t i don’t know if i believe in cancer culture uh peer-to-peer right or or society to fear i don’t know if i believe in that um because that seems more like revenge than it does rehabilitation right so if you’re

(1:31:54) interested in revenge you cancel somebody okay cool if you’re interested in rehabilitating them like for instance i am friends with people who are formerly racist right because i’ve rehabilitated them they’ve converted to anti-racism and so when you when you cancel everything once again like 2019 we’re all about cancer culture 2020 mother earth canceled culture for us right so do did we like that did we like having did we like having our options limited to the point of where we couldn’t change our minds about things or become

(1:32:32) better people about things and you know it’s almost as if cancel culture and we use it i think we use it really we should be canceling white supremacy we should be canceling the ideas of old right we should be cancelling old ideologies that no longer surface old agreements that have gotten us into this place that we’re in creating new agreements right so cancer culture i think is valuable but i think it has to be towards ideologies towards behaviors towards patterns cancel those things don’t cancel people

(1:33:05) because people are uh they they are led by these old agreements they’re led by these these old patterns right so canceling the pattern would cancel the behavior right yeah i totally get what you’re saying yeah so the two people the seeker and the dweller too reminded me you know if you go far back enough we’re all from the same ancestors and yeah you’re my brother i’m just a fated black person as you’ve said before yeah we’re we’re 13 we’re cousins 13 times remember 14 times so it’s crazy that that this is even

(1:33:45) where we where we’re at it’s still crazy it’s the conversation unfortunately like you said this is where we’re at like it is so we have to go from there and i don’t know if this is even that related but when i was in uganda i remember being on a like matatu it’s like one of those little it’s almost like a cattle truck but you’re all like crammed in there you can hardly sit and you know they can drink they can drink the water just fine if i drink the water in uganda i typically will probably get

(1:34:10) sick and i had this one water bottle to last me all day and someone next to me was thirsty and she just held her hand out for it it wasn’t weird for her to ask for some of my water and i handed it to her and they passed it around and by the time it got back to me it was empty but it was the fact that like they none of them in this matatu like they none of them were family none of them knew each other but they treated each other as such and it wasn’t weird for them to share one bottle of water whereas here if you

(1:34:38) if that were to happen on a that would never happen on a bus you know like we don’t this country we don’t treat each other like family we’ve lost that i don’t know if we ever even had it no in this country we’ve never had that this country was based on um dehumanizing people from the beginning and uh and yeah once again you can become very rich that way but what does that do to your humanity yeah yeah so i have a question about this we’re wrapping up here though yeah the terms and labels that were

(1:35:12) there okay thank you for saying that um so the terms that we hear coming around like karen you know don’t be a karen this type of thing how do you what is your viewpoint on something like that where it becomes in a sense um derogatory like i understand the reason that it’s come about i understand where it can be useful i think but is it helpful at the end of the day sorry for anyone listening that’s named karen yeah by the way karen’s like real karen i always thought that was funny because i have a couple of friends

(1:35:51) yeah i know it was like for a while people named felicia oh yeah you could not say bye you you words have no meaning without context so why do you call them a karen are you asking yeah why i don’t call anyone a karen why do people why do people get called from what i’ve experienced it’s people who are like they’re the ones who want to talk to the manager they’re the ones that you know are yelling about the mess and stuff like that i haven’t seen the cops for no good real reason there you

(1:36:32) go it’s it’s mostly a policing mentality they have a policing mentality right so there’s a policing mentality that happens and based on that policing mentality you put someone’s life in danger you put someone’s quality you diminish someone’s quality of life you you diminish their decency um even even if you don’t know that’s what you’re doing that’s what that person is doing so that’s why they’re being called the karen because it simplifies the attitude of policing behavior into

(1:37:10) one word and you can point it out and it becomes once again a sword of a shield and a flag that protects you from people policing your your being your your thought processes your physical space um or your intentions like for instance you see these you see these uh videos of i don’t use the i don’t use the term carrying because i don’t think it’s helpful but i understand why it’s being used yeah because here’s the thing i don’t know if you guys have ever been and i’ll use it in this context i don’t

(1:37:43) know if you guys have ever been here but i have and what happens is you get so upset and so um you feel you feel like your decency is being diminished in such a palpable way that you that you want to act out in anger and frustrations all these things you can’t really do so what do you do you are you either have to sort of get yourself out of a situation that you never has to be in that you’re being harassed you’re literally being harassed and now people are saying well the person who’s doing the harassing

(1:38:24) sometimes sometimes it’s illegal sometimes it’s assault sometimes they’re putting their hands on you i don’t really care how they feel about being called a name because it’s the behavior it’s your assaulting behavior it’s your policing mentality it’s the fact that you might call the cops on somebody for not doing anything that could actually get them killed elijah mcclain right so it’s it’s almost as if it’s it’s almost this sense of fragility where people go well karen’s derogatory

(1:39:02) you’re like but why would you call the karen let’s go let’s don’t change the subject you recall to karen because you called the police amy cooper on christian for bird watching exactly and that the meme of you don’t do anything to break the law and cops will leave you alone no elijah’s a perfect example that that’s not the case there’s tons of perfect examples that’s the exact same thing or very similar thing to telling a woman she shouldn’t have worn that or she wouldn’t have been

(1:39:32) assaulted right exact same thing right so it’s like it’s almost like once again you know candace owens who watches and people like her who watch um george floyd be publicly executed and the first thing that they do is the consciousness level they have is to look up george floyd’s record right instead of the one who’s doing the killing the murderer yeah why did you look at the executioner’s record see what he’s done you looked at the victim record it’s like watching sorry and i hate using

(1:40:04) analogy but it’s the same thing it’s like watching a rape on camera and going let’s see what that victim did fight oh well she was like she was five years ago yeah she was a stripper or she you know she went to jail for you know like prostitution three years ago yeah come on this is not a great person i’m not saying she deserves to be raped but look what she did eight months before yeah so this guy doesn’t deserve punishment for raping her even if you’re saying he deserves punishment why did you look up her

(1:40:32) record she was raped she was a victim people keep changing the subject and so like and not to say that you are but i’m saying like i’ve heard this a lot a lot oh karen’s derogatory okay you want to call me jerome cool i’ll take that weight way over the n-word it’s not the same yeah like i we get called things for just breathing mm-hmm right yeah i guess it’s called karen because she’s putting your life in danger or the quality of your life or she’s diminishing the quality of your life or diminishing your

(1:41:08) human decency that’s that’s why that’s why there’s a name for it yeah yeah the concern for me becomes um when we start stereotyping and labeling things because that’s what got us here in the first place essentially is when we create this broad um a name for a a this is in this case a karen normally would be portrayed as a middle-aged white woman um so and probably someone on the right are on the far right right so these things there is a there is a racial bigotry within uh liberalism that people are

(1:41:56) [Music] um many liberals can’t even entertain the fact that they’re racist so they become even more racist [Music] it’s really sad it’s really really sad because it’s like they it’s almost like they they they’ll vote for obama and they want to help like amy cooper vote is going to vote for biden hmm he’s 30-something years i can’t believe new york city you know what i’m saying that’s one of the discouraging things in the midst of this movement is we don’t really have two people out of the two

(1:42:30) people we have neither of them are going to help solve this issue well bite is going to have to um or i mean you’re you’re normally right and i’m not gonna say that you’re wrong but i’m saying i think that there’s a difference this year only because if biden wins he’s gonna have to win on a blm platform because black people are ready to say [ __ ] the system and it’s not vote for anybody and let people like amy cooper be stuck with trump for the next hour or 20 years she decides to be president

(1:43:02) because we can’t even go bird watching without biden voters calling trying to threaten our lives and use the police as a weapon what do we have what do we got yeah we got nothing like so if you push people to that point you’re gonna get what you want right which is which is which is like so amy cooper’s like i can i can possibly get christian cooper killed and the christian sisters still going to go to the polls on election day and help me get my agenda across what do you mean by um liberals denying their racism so much that they

(1:43:36) become more racist what does that mean if you okay so we are everybody so i’m gonna just be real the three of us are racist why yeah i don’t disagree with you we were raised in a racially biased container with racially biased ideas and racially biased media i’m scared of the same black boogie man you guys are right i’m scared of the same rashaan that you guys are rashaan doesn’t exist really you know he never existed it was it was a portrayal of white supremacy to scare us into thinking that we should that it’s right to dehumanize

(1:44:19) these type of people now the people that mainstream america is frightened of some of those people are my cousins and they just look like that but they’re really nice people george was a great guy i’m sure in some ways in some ways but he’s not a hero he’s not a martyr to us he’s a symbol he’s he’s he’s he’s he’s analogous to what america has always done to us right they need us he’s not a martyr because it wasn’t his decision to die um what you have is how do i put this so if you’re not

(1:45:00) willing to look at where you are in that racially biased spectrum that actually makes you more racist right right so like i was willing to look at where i was in the sexually biased i mean on the sexist spectrum yeah about five or six years ago and i realized i was i was on the left side of that spectrum and um so on one end of that spectrum you have guys who tell bad jokes or don’t say don’t stop the bad joke from happening or they whistle at the the girl the girl who’s holding the card at the fight or

(1:45:30) you know something like that and on the other side of that sexy spectrum you have men who desecrate the female energy in such a way where they kidnap rape and murder women right they’re all sexist but that doesn’t mean that we’re that we have to identify with each other so on that one end of that spectrum i realized that i i was the person stopping the lewd comment i was that guy i was the person not making the blue comments so i was i wasn’t even here but i wasn’t the person who was understanding and

(1:46:03) having compassion for the fact that women feel uh metal many women feel uh under appreciated undervalued especially at work and not heard and you know so it took me you know bumbling through uh some stupid questions for a couple years just to become more of a feminist right yeah but if i if i refused to look at where i was in that spectrum i would have had to be more sexist right so it’s the liberal a lot of the liberals who are just on this one end of the spectrum who don’t stop the racist joke or don’t who

(1:46:40) make the racist joke sometimes or they they they they make the generalization about all people right and on the other end of that spectrum you have white supremacist nazi pieces of [ __ ] who execute people in public once again that doesn’t mean you have to identify with everybody in that spectrum we’re all racist we’re not all the same so when you go well i’m not i’m not racist that means that you can’t even identify where you are and sometimes it’s something so subtle like um i know for me

(1:47:10) where i found my racism is that as a kid i had multiple black best friends so i thought oh well i’m i’m not racist because i didn’t even notice they were black but me not noticing that they were black me not seeing their color meant i didn’t see them i was i didn’t i didn’t realize that their experience was different than mine and that was a form of racism it’s it’s very interesting when you like so and that’s that’s very astute but you didn’t realize that figure that out

(1:47:35) that’s because most people can’t do that and it says something it says it was on mushrooms it says that you’re being actively anti-racist is that that’s what it means and when people go well i don’t see color i don’t see them which would that what it means is that you’re devaluing their color in your head yeah you’re not seeing them right right i don’t i i i see it’s all the same well no because their experience is much different than yours and because you’re you’re devaluing

(1:48:12) their color and it’s almost like we can get to a place one day where we don’t we don’t have to deal with that we don’t see that hopefully hopefully my kids can but we’re not there now i hope that doesn’t happen and i hope after that you talked about trafficking i really hope that sex trafficking like i feel like that’s a that’s something that is not looked at at all that’s something that’s been erased from our history and something that people think of the word slavery and they act like it’s something

(1:48:40) of the past when we have just as many slaves today but it’s majority of it is in sex trafficking well i would say i would say there’s a lot of in sex trafficking i don’t know the numbers but i would say there’s a lot of intersexual and that’s never stopped and a lot of this a lot of it it has a lot of slavery american slavery in particular um has has moved and transmuted itself into prison system yeah that’s incarceration yeah so so the the really quick history on that is uh after the civil war ended

(1:49:13) you had once again you had lincoln and sherman give a reservation to black people that only lasted two years um then the union army which is a which is i hate saying union the us army um rounded up most of the black people in the south and put them in the camps or they somehow control them in some way shape or form um and then once they handed the power back to the white supremacists in the south what they did was they created these laws called black codes meaning that you couldn’t pay by people more than a

(1:49:44) certain like pennies on the dollar if you did as a white person you’d be arrested yourself um black people had nowhere to go so they were vagrants so vagrancy became punishable by 15 to 20 years in a work camp uh loitering became punishable by 15 20 30 years of working public lewdness which means speaking aloud became or spitting they observed black behavior because they had done it for centuries and they knew what black people did and they go this is illegal this is illegal this is illegal this is illegal and because of

(1:50:23) that these these these laws have to be upheld and you know five to ten years fifteen twenty years in work camps there were camps for the plantations the exact same ones yeah there was no difference and anyone who wants to go further on that can watch 13th on netflix as well absolutely so what you have is a system of physical bondage that ended in 1865.

(1:50:48) on june 19th 1865. but the emotional the um sociological the structural the infrastructural bondage has never ended it’s never ended right now there’s people in prison camps who are doing forced labor for 35 cents an hour 65 cents an hour 1.50 an hour and they’re in there for 20 years for being an accessory to robbery meaning they were in the car when it happened somebody else robbed the store come on come on those those are the same laws that are on the books from 1865.

(1:51:32) so when you look at when you look at the actual american history that they that that is unrevised in many ways you’re looking at the most exploitative country that’s ever that’s existed since rome or egypt and you have you have to look at what happened to those empires they collapsed on themselves because of how bad they were to their own people you know and i i think that’s that should be a wake-up call you know you can’t keep treating people like that and expect your society to survive right

(1:52:19) it doesn’t happen throughout history it just doesn’t happen do you have a prediction of where this is going to go in the near future especially maybe with the election i don’t really concern myself with the near future because the near future um is the near the near future i think that we have to set a global pillar of consciousness to eradicate systemic racism and systemic oppression by 2030.

(1:52:55) i think that we have to do that i think i think that the global community needs to get involved i think that that is a global pillar of consciousness that we should you should eradicate it by 2030 because if you don’t the entire world’s in trouble like what happen let me just pose a general question what are the circumstances that have created terrorist cells what are the general say again yeah just what are the circumstances that are created terrorist cells a feeling of of of hopelessness of never having your voice being heard

(1:53:40) of of um crippling oppression for decades if not centuries feeling of unsafety [Music] constant fight fighter flight on high unemployment death a death toll get an unbelievable death toll at the hands of a system of a government and of of enforcement of law enforcement take away the names of the countries take away the names of the people or the descriptions of the people and just put in the numbers just put in the sociological factors that lead up to destruction if somebody created a checklist i bet you and there’s ten things on that

(1:54:29) checklist i bet you’re we’re at seven and i’m a very very very peaceful person i’m a very peaceful person i have worked hard so hard in my life my little brother was murdered i have been i have been hospitalized by the police for jaywalking pepper sprayed the mouth the eyes tasing the balls in the back i have i have been kidnapped from my own house by police because they didn’t believe it was my house so they arrested me put me in jail and people go why don’t you sue well because the police unions are really

(1:55:09) strong they’ll make your life a living hell so i’ve had i’ve had guns pulled on me by police since i was 12 years old i the first time i got arrested i was eight years old and had my face pushed against the wall for playing hide-and-go-seek and you got handcuffed it has taken everything in my life to find peace from what my country has done to me what has been allowed uh what has been allowed uh to happen to me at eight twelve years old um and then people argue with me about whether that matters i’m not the kind of person that the

(1:55:53) world needs to be worried about i have so many options in my life i can leave this country i’m not here now right so i i have a lot of options but what about the people who don’t right what do you tell them what do you tell the kid who went to a in 2016 and just came back and he sees somebody his age getting hunted by his white neighbors called a mod aubry whose only crime was that he wouldn’t be kidnapped by three men what do you tell him what do you tell those those vets coming back who are getting pepper sprayed in the face by

(1:56:35) bicycle cops who are saying my life has value and i and i lost friends fighting for this country what do you tell them what do we do about the police i mean there’s this call for defunding the police okay and people don’t really understand what that means yeah can we can you explain it sounds scary to people because they think well my uncle’s a cop i like your auntie could still be a cop he just your uncle just can’t be a piece of [ __ ] anymore so like well he’s not required to be you know do multiple things that he’s not trained

(1:57:09) for right so like i should take that back i don’t mean it’s your uncle right what i mean well here’s the thing when you get beat up by the cops when you’re eight years old do you think i understand you know so like it’s it’s just it’s ptsd like whenever when i see what happened to elijah when i see what happened to george and i see what happens to a mom when i see what happens these people like i go into a hole for two or three days of depression severe depression because of the ptsd

(1:57:34) that i have from literally being like what happened to me at eight years old was child abuse right like the person should have gone to prison for what he did to me yeah eight years old right but he’s a cop right right like that that was this really confusing thing i wanted to be a company until it happened right right and then these are the good guys these are the guys in the movies that you root for right so like he becomes his mind [ __ ] that happens so like i would say so defunding the police is is a is a very

(1:58:07) simple way of saying demilitarize the police and put more money that’s going towards the police put it more towards other like mental health and things like that right right when you when you militarize the police they become they become those rights this is what it is so like right now you call 9-1-1 for everything and then they send the police for everything so you say there’s a guy acting weird does he have a gun no um is is anyone in danger no okay we’ll send the cop we’ll send people with guns

(1:58:45) right what why richard brooks is sleeping in his car out of wendy’s parking lot is he is anyone in danger no he just ain’t drunk leaving his car okay well if we defund the police instead of sending people with weapons to deal with a drunk guy sleeping in his car you would send that you would send a service that would take him home yes he did the responsible thing and pulled over that’s what he did so it’s so defunding the police is just basically saying you know we have these city budgets of like i don’t know 500 million depending

(1:59:21) on the city and 390 million go to the police why for what like and then 1 million goes to parts and services like what no so it’s just spreading the money out in ways that can help us and thinking of thinking about domestic abuse or mental health checks or wellness checks a lot of times these people who are shot and uh unarmed they need medical attention they need they need a social worker they need um a psychologist or psychiatrist they need to be taken to a mental health professional or a mental health professional needs to show up in the

(2:00:01) scene not somebody who went to three weeks of training right who has four guns on that’s not the person who needs to be there so when we talk about defunding the police it’s not so much about like i i saw this meme saying well all the burglars are waiting till we defend the police so they can start burgling again yeah when have you seen cops stop a burglary that’s not what they do they catch the burglar after they don’t stop the bank robbery they catch them after they’re investigators they’re not de-escalators they’re not

(2:00:36) taught that they’re not taught that they’re militarized and they escalate issues so when you have an unmilitarized civilian population who is being policed by a militarized population what do you have it’s a recipe for disaster especially when those people you know they just need a high school degree they don’t need they don’t need a master’s they don’t need to they don’t need a lot of training but most most police academies are three weeks and they give you a badge and a gun and these people come into

(2:01:10) this job with the ideologies and the ideas and the prejudices that they had right so three weeks ago right yeah that hasn’t changed it’s nothing so and you give them guns and you give them power and then you don’t and you and you you don’t there’s no repercussions for when they kill people who look like me so what like i think beauty school lasts longer than that you need more training as a barber yeah than you do you need more training as a chef a yoga teacher yeah you need more as a yoga teacher or

(2:01:48) a kindergarten teacher or a dental hygienist like i i don’t know what you can i don’t know what i could if i decide to be a cop july 1st i could be on the street by august that makes no sense yeah that makes no difference with a gun and and a level of a level of impunity when it comes to pulling that gun and using it [Music] knowing that i that there won’t be any repercussions as long as that person is dark skinned so defunding the police is about reformation yeah defunding the police is about safety and security right because like so for

(2:02:30) instance like um yes it is about reformation so like you can’t reform the police you can’t reform the police that’s band-aids we we okay so here’s here’s something really interesting that if people understood this they would they would understand the final please american policing comes from slave catchers we didn’t have cars we had we had the british we had the british redcoats that were that were the uh that kept law and order in the colonies when they left you had you had militias right

(2:03:05) but they policed property they didn’t police people let’s say a land by owning white male had had an issue with another land owning white male you have a council figure that out and it would be mostly a civil matter nobody would go to jail not not an early america so what did you so the only thing you were policing was property what property meant back then for black people if they escaped bringing them back slave catching that’s what it was that’s what it was and that became and the slave catchers became the

(2:03:38) confederate soldiers [Music] and the confederate soldiers became the cops and their kids became cops and their kids became guys that’s crazy their kids became cops and it makes sense now that’s what it is and so we’re funding the same people the same lineage right that hung people from trees yeah that cut my great-aunt’s fetus out of her stomach we’re funding the same people because they have a level of impunity and they know if i get a badge like my grandfather i can do whatever i want so when you understand that american

(2:04:18) policing the foundation the birth of american policing was in slave catching wasn’t policing the black body in a black life in every way meaning a child a white child could ask to see a slave’s papers and if the white child disbelieved thought that the slaves papers were forgery they could enslave that person again that’s where it comes that’s where karen comes from [Music] the policing mentality of a white citizen the police of black life that’s where karen comes from that’s where the that’s when the name that’s where that’s

(2:04:58) where the mentality comes from right so prior to prior to having slave catches because obviously bounty hunters weren’t the most financially feasible thing to do they they deputized white citizens to catch slaves or tell on slaves that were doing something wrong they thought they were doing something wrong so that they could be punished but people were too busy so that only lasted 10 to 15 years so what they did was they created slave catchers and bounty hunters and then like once again like i said they became

(2:05:28) the confederates and they became cops yeah that’s what happened that’s literally what happened wow thank you for that history lesson um i mean i mean it i think that that’s something i was missing um so we’ve gone over a lot here of course but i want to kind of just ask you before we move on to our staple questions that are that are pretty quick at the end of our show here um is there anything that you feel like we missed and is there anything you want to just speak on it’s coming up for you i i kind

(2:06:04) of i feel like you know one i know that people get so tired of talking about race and i i i get it i get really tired of talking about race too but as much as is as tired as people are about hearing about race and racism we’re so much more tired of experiencing it um yeah and i think i think what has to happen is like i i truly believe that this this has to happen we can solve you can change someone’s consciousness about racism in three weeks i’m doing it right now i i have maggots supporters that have that i was talking to three

(2:06:48) weeks ago three weeks ago well i know people i want to sign up for that let’s tell you a short story i worked on the obama campaign in 2008 and i went to this place called moon township pennsylvania you know anything about pennsylvania there’s basically two cities in pennsylvania it’s philly and pittsburgh and everything in between is 1960s okay right so i went to this small town called moon township pennsylvania at a huge mall on registering voters the obama campaign did not allow you to to push a candidate

(2:07:20) uh he played by the rules even though mccain camp did not so i’m registering voters and this guy at a sunglasses kiosk named mike won’t register to vote i’m like what why don’t you register and vote he’s like so finally he’s being real i know i know why he won’t do it but i i like people to tell me in my face what’s going on so finally he goes lion voting for no [ __ ] oh my god i said okay mike why won’t you vote for no [ __ ] and he looked at me like i was crazy and couldn’t believe i just didn’t walk away

(2:08:01) or get mad and i just was like let’s talk so we sat down we had some sparrows actually he had some i don’t even know that [ __ ] and then um and then uh i had mccain’s pamphlet i had obama’s pamphlet and i ripped off the covers and i said i got a pen out and i said tell me what’s important to you mike and he listed all the things that were important and i started checking things off in both campus right at the end of what he was telling his list of of things that were that he valued seven out of ten

(2:08:36) was obama wow wow so when you take the cover off of something you take the nonsense take the noise you take the you take the preconceived notions you take the conditioning away from the conversation you go what’s important to you we’re all the same yeah yeah paul selig a guest we have on the show often he says what’s true is always true and and that’s that is it’s just getting there is the really challenging part that comes with all that suffering yeah and i i i think i think um sorry i guess what has to happen is we

(2:09:16) have to have this person has been exposed to a delusional myth that has been normalized for so long they don’t know it’s a delusional myth so i have to approach them in that way yeah and that takes compassion that takes patience so so i guess when you’re talking about the patients yeah i think i don’t think there’s a lot of patients left on a national level right on a macro level but i think there’s a lot of patients left here yeah and that’s what i meant is how do yeah how do we cultivate that when we’re

(2:09:57) feeling fed up in the moment and maybe we just need to take a break for a moment and come back to it come back to it which is privileged yeah yeah well i mean yes yes you know here’s the thing i like i mean you can’t you can’t fight the same fight um but i also think that we have a responsibility to our two ancestors who were squabbling over seeking and dwelling to find balance in that we have a responsibility to our two ancestors um to start having those conversations we have a responsibility to to to

(2:10:49) hold space and and to have compassion and patience for for the people who might not be um [Music] open to the knowledge and facts you know i’ll say this like it’s almost as if like um how do i put this i’m going to say something really uh that could be that could be taken out of context so i’m trying to be very careful um okay progress not perfection right although these things live forever i know yeah this becomes a small sound bite yes uh so how do i put this um we have a responsibility to have our

(2:11:49) greatest minds in the world on this troubleshooting racism as if it were a problem that was that that could end humanity as we know it because it came yeah yeah so we we have every so we’re colonizing mars where we’re where we figured out the human genome we’re we’re 10 years away from the singularity in machine learning machine learning we we we are 10 years away from uh ai being as smart as the human brain yeah we we have the ability to solve this problem but we have to look at it as a global

(2:12:26) pillar of consciousness for the greatest like where’s elon musk on this where’s he at like you ain’t [ __ ] to me unless unless you’re unless you unless you’re trying to solve the issue of our day [ __ ] mars but you’re gonna you’re gonna tell me that there might be a lynching on mars right then we’re interstellar [ __ ] right we’re not ready for that yet then we need to work on this first we’re now ready you can’t [ __ ] with you that really is that really is the uh

(2:12:57) the gist of the the argument that shouldn’t be an argument of why is it black lives matter versus all lives matter it’s because this has to happen first because we’re not ready to look at anything else until we can resolve this situation [Music] which is but i mean it’s like if we start to colonize mars and there’s still people being executed in the street we failed yeah that’s what i’m saying so it’s almost like we have we have a responsibility to all of our ancestors no matter what

(2:13:31) your ancestors thought or what they did or what they didn’t do or how complicit they were how silent they were or how evil or vile they may have been they also want you to heal yeah and anyways our ancestor being mother earth as well like you spoke about and like that analogy with the farmer and the amazon it’s like the 10 000 foot view of this is if we’re going to be able to sustain life on this planet and can and have any um ability to steward this species this one race the human race forward then we’re going to need to get right

(2:14:13) with mother earth which means we have to resolve these problems these issues first because this is where we’re at right now we can’t jump ahead we have to do the work ending oppression is beginning the end of climate change yeah of of solving the climate change crisis crisis ending oppression is solving the gender pay god ending oppression because it’s a consciousness issue right that if we’re able to treat people a certain way and dehumanize them and diminish their decency then we can do it all all over the place

(2:14:52) in every different facet and also the world we can do it to the world we can do it to earth so like it’s it’s a consciousness issue of diminishing decency and humanity uh across the board and once again we have a responsibility jeff bezos elon musk [Music] this is this is the issue of the day yeah this is this is the the labor to use a very feminine term um this is the labor of our rebirth yeah yeah that’s good yeah we brought it full circle guys i like it all right so you can have it run with it um okay so there are a few

(2:15:38) short questions we like to ask the show or and the show with and the first one is if you could hug your younger self right now at any age what would you say my mind went to my 12 year old self [Music] i mm-hmm the cop pulled a gun on me uh i would hope i would just i’ll tell you something like i was playing outside of the school waiting i forget what i was doing i didn’t ride the bus that day and i was waiting on my grandmother to pick me up so i was a large key kid and i remember some of my friends that i already left

(2:16:35) and i was just kind of throwing rocks against this pole and these cops rolled up and after i asked you what i was doing when they pulled it down on me and said i need to be taught a lesson and i would hug i would hug myself at that age and i would say one day the man in the in that car will be known as sick human beings [Music] one day the men in that car history will have a name for those men and you’re okay buddy what they did to you um it’s not your fault there’s nothing wrong with your skin there’s nothing wrong with you

(2:17:22) and one day you’re gonna know that and one day those men i think that’s what i would say yeah i think that’s something young black men right now really need to hear yeah this this incident that happened does not define who you are and that um it’s hard to know that though as you’re growing up it’s hard to know oh god yeah can’t imagine literally yeah you have to be an alchemist like being black in this country means that something will be you will have to sacrifice something yeah whether that’s success or your dignity

(2:18:01) or or you have to transmute hatred and bigotry into into hope and forgiveness my best friend tom shadiak um yeah he loves you too he yeah he uh opened a rock climbing gym and the poorest zip code in america in memphis in soulsville um and yeah um yeah yeah but i’d love for you to uh go like speak to that community and um you know get involved in what he’s doing there um he doesn’t he doesn’t charge these kids to rock climb he’s just getting them off the street and mentoring them and basically telling them what you just

(2:18:46) told your 12 year old self so they could really hear that from you love um awesome if you could have the whole world read one book which would it be the one i’m writing right now yeah yeah uh that’s that sounds so conceited no it’s fine we have some people people on here promoting their books all the time i mean i i would say i would say god i mean there’s some i mean like because of the time we’re in right now i say how to be an anti-racist but can be uh ex but i would i would say i’m writing a

(2:19:30) book called i never agreed okay and it’s just about how the fact the fact that we are forcibly integrated into these uh disagreements at the moment of our birth these inherited agreements in the moment of our birth and um how much of our lives lives are wasted uh toiling um with these inherited agreements instead of instead of pursuing what the original agreement was which is to exist why are you here exploring that again and creating chosen agreements that support that agreement yeah so um that one and i would say

(2:20:09) and also right now 1984. i have that one’s coming up a lot lately yeah people should take a second or that one yeah i like that um if you could whisper one phrase to everyone on the planet what would it be stop fighting that’s good before we let you go where can people find you online uh at macabre brooks m-e-h-c-a-d um um that’s my instagram that’s my twitter facebook i don’t really do facebook um [Music] i have the church of anti-racism but we’re changing the name i think probably to the entire race anti-racist

(2:20:54) collective oh i like that yeah um a lot of people feel weird around the name church for some reason so yeah i know i know and so do i i’m not a churchy guy but i just kind of feel like antoine racism has to be protected almost like a religion um the ideology has to be protected can i can i say one last thing absolutely thank you guys um and i think that your listeners will give this and that’s why that’s why i want to say it so i believe consciousness is alive right we talked about that a little bit

(2:21:28) [Music] and the last pulse of consciousness we had was 500 years ago as a reformation and what the reformation did was it was catapulted and amplified by one of the reasons it happened was was this invention that changed the world forever called the printing press and before that you had scribes for these pre priests and priestesses who would um orate certain knowledge to people and they’d write that down and that still that you had it was all excellent terrorists esotericism so you had 25 people writing something down who would impart that

(2:22:04) knowledge to um the aristocracy and all this knowledge was kept in the in the aristocracy for centuries millennia prince and fresh changed that forever it was it was the first time you could write one thing and then send it out to a bunch of people and then what happened that martin luther changed he reformed the entire church women’s role in society uh drastically changed within 10 years monarchs had to change the way that they were governed everything on the planet changed because people had access to information and

(2:22:42) opinions the other thing that it did was it helped the industrial the industrialization of commerce by spreading a myth through the printing press that myth was that races actually existed at all and that there was a valuation structure so what you have before that is you had ethnicities you had people from here people from here people here people who spoke this language that was it so you have people under this kingdom that’s it you have races so a portuguese king around 1455 uh was got a scribe to write these myths about

(2:23:20) africans so that his legacy would be protected as a liberator not another human trafficker and he said that africa was that was satan’s last stronghold on the planet and that these people are sub-human they’re savages the beasts everything that that pervades today about about uh black culture was created in the late 15th century in portugal and amplified by this invention called uh the printing press two companies the duchy sending company best west city company used the printing press to create pamphlets to make their

(2:23:56) sailors and pirates and investors feel better about kidnapping children from africa use the portuguese lips right well what do we have now what’s the new invention the internet social media yeah the printing press was the first time people could repost and retweet something and they used they used it to amplify propaganda and shape the last five centuries on the myth so we are right now in the position a brand new pulse of consciousness with this brand new piece of technology that we can use to spread truth inclusion and kindness and shape the

(2:24:44) next four or five centuries with that or we can protect the myths the portuguese mix that shape the world for the last 500 years so i just want to bring the invitation to you guys and your listeners but this is where you are you’re alive in in the most beautiful explosion of consciousness and innovation in the last 500 years and what are we going to use our printing press for yeah are we going to spread kindness and inclusion in the truth about humanity are we going to protect the myths of the past that got us here in the first place

(2:25:25) it’s really good thank you you’re welcome thank you and thank you for letting me thanks for coming to my ted talk this is his podcast now i’m just kidding no thank you so much i um even though it’s a heavy topic and it’s it’s you know can feel overwhelming um you articulated it all in a way that felt doable and um it was doable yeah we can do this we can solve this sorry i’m going to cut you off no no so just thank you um you you just articulated it in a way that that was really applicable i think

(2:26:09) for everyone that’s listening so thank you so much oh i i certainly appreciate you guys holding space for my voice and uh of course sometimes i can i can i can be along with you so thank you very much us too but we’re glad to have you here we’re glad to share this with our listeners and i’ve learned a bunch just from our little talk here today so i appreciate the work you’re doing and i know that uh i know that it’s hard work i know that yeah that is something thank you for doing the hard work anyone out there

(2:26:39) listening to who is uh taking on the burden which it is of doing this difficult work know that you’re serving really in your purpose and that we appreciate you that’s awesome yeah i’ll say this you know what’s more difficult not doing it yeah it’s it’s more difficult sitting sitting in the hopelessness of allowing it to just happen and not being allowing the hunt yeah whatever whatever history we’ll call this just sitting and sitting in silence to self-advertise that to me that’s that’s harder

(2:27:20) and what is the story you want to tell your children you know about how you played a role in this so um well thank you [Laughter] i was having a conversation with a friend of mine he was like i’m having a lot of trouble with this whole thing and he’s being super honest he’s like because it makes me feel like my parents are [ __ ] up and i go well if you feel that way about your parents how do you want your kids to look at you yeah i love that because the the to me first of all 90 of probably our probably 90 of our

(2:28:03) show delves just into psychology over and over again and so anyone realizing for the first time that their roots have you know racism it heals their future generations yeah yeah first of all yeah we all at some point whether it has to do with racism or anything else in our lives that becomes you know that is an issue or something we find as a flaw in ourselves comes from our previous generations likely our conditioning our domestications and digging up that [ __ ] is gonna make you for a moment maybe even demonize your

(2:28:36) parents to some degree and that’s part of the process and if we can do that with the light of our parents were doing the best they could from their own conditioning we can be forgiving enough to go okay i see see where you were and i’m glad that i get to take from that platform and bring it up to the next level yeah and you kind of also have to forgive them for for them for the morality over time of the time and the the unawareness um because they didn’t have the internet they didn’t have social media yeah it’s

(2:29:09) almost like you have to forgive them because unawareness was so was was so common right it was so easy to be in the unaware yeah it’s like you know what you know what how many times have you villainized your parents anyway like they’re wrong they’re wrong and so it’s like this is just another thing where you go yeah you guys kind of sucked on this which is great but like let’s let’s not suck now yeah from going forward now that we know we’re conscious we can’t move forward with that ability because

(2:29:42) we’re going to [ __ ] up our kids in some other way you know i know it might be like it might be like trying to prove that everybody’s you know one too much you’re right who knows and like people like oh my god my parents are so funny that’s true it very well could be you’re probably right my mom won’t stop making me watch documentaries yeah this this this pendulum has to swing back and i think that there’s a lot of ancestral guilt yeah but it doesn’t mean it has to be your gift yeah like this i have a lot of

(2:30:19) ancestral trauma but it doesn’t have to be my trauma doesn’t have to be my story you’re not in my children’s story yeah and the ancestral guilt does not have to be yours it doesn’t have to be yours yeah and the privilege we all have as we’re working through this thing is we over our parents you know we get to see that that happened this is what it created that’s you know what my story is now and where do i go from here and that is a privilege in order to be able to do that and that is

(2:30:48) the work also so to you know like what your friend was asking you macad which is something that i think jade and i have gotten a lot of text from friends too that question of how do i decide how to act now to my parents who might even still hold this you know idea in their head and maybe aren’t going to change in your lifetime um and how do i move forward from here it’s like you just say see it as it is and it’s not like oh accept it for what it is it’s see where they were forgive that peace you know that is what it is

(2:31:22) and do the work of first of all looking at that and and grieving any part of them that isn’t going to come along on this journey perhaps and then do your work of how you’re going to change for yourself and for future generations to you know for you to be the light in that sense i think a very easily analogy easy analogy on that is like were you were those people’s parents for gay marriage 10 years ago right um and like you probably hadn’t you lost some respect and in some ways you’re like damn they’re really

(2:31:55) [ __ ] backwards but you don’t think that two people of the same sex should be able to get married and now they’re probably like oh yeah that’s not a big deal yeah yeah hopefully this goes the same way yeah it is it is here we are look at we’re we’re we’re working on it our generation intends to make that happen yes i think i think we’ll slay this dragon well for the first time in a long time there’s there’s a lot of hope right now so let’s keep that train rolling yeah thank you so much a lot of intention

(2:32:31) yes yes yes people are being intentional um thank you so much so next we’re gonna air this the monday after this monday we’re going to air it in two parts and uh we’ll send you a bunch of video promos and tag you up a storm so oh that sounds great i really appreciate you guys that this was thank you special freak for me thank you thank you thank you enjoy tulum yeah [ __ ] um go do a sweat lodge bye for sure thank you bye [Music] all right i really gotta go um but since we’re not airing part two till the week

(2:33:12) after we can record our magic tricks on wednesday after charles okay and i’ll send you charles by monday