(00:02) here okay silencing my phone and please silence yours i heard it buzz it reminded me that was yours actually oh it was mine is off greetings magic mobbers welcome boys and babes it’s that time again it’s the magic hour a place where we navigate through life’s peaks and valleys with all the vulnerability and shamelessness we can muster with the help of world-class guests from all walks of life we uncover new truths and valuable tools for manifesting our highest potential i’m your host mercedes terrell

(00:38) along with my partner in shine jade bryce hey you guys i am generally i am genuinely so excited to talk to our guests today because we’re going to be diving into the topic of boundaries something which is largely part of my journey currently and i’m realizing how critically i’ve been neglecting putting boundaries into place in my own life you’re gonna do an example um yeah i didn’t type it out and wait for it at the end yeah yeah cool thanks for sharing that jaden and i’m i’m really still trying to

(01:07) define what boundaries are and how to define my own and then how to communicate them to my partner and to my friends and family members i feel like i’m just on the beginning of this journey into the world of creating boundaries so i’ve got a lot of work and a lot to ask our guest today so let’s get her on john please don’t send me that intro oh john please don’t send me that intro because i listen to like five of them and then it’s just useless time and editing notes so just start it over from just send me what’s

(01:37) from here on out please do you want to do her bio with a master’s degree in psychology and a bachelor’s degree in sociology today’s guest is a renowned relationship coach with a passion for helping individuals and couples have healthier relationships with themselves and others she immigrated from syria to the us as a young child bringing her fascination of the critical role family culture plays in intimate relationships into the work she does today she has a background in the theatrical arts as well as in film production and

(02:20) interestingly utilizes her knowledge in those areas in her relationship therapy she’s an expert in teaching practical relationship skills and how to have healthy boundaries and we are huge fans of her instagram account and her podcast where she’s constantly dropping knowledge on these topics we’re thrilled to be learning from her today how to turn conflict into connection and how to love and how to love with integrity so with that please welcome sylvie kukasian to the magic hour kukasian right i was going off of what you how you

(02:58) spelled it out down there i think that’s right kukasian um okay it’s eight so i don’t know if you want to run it through it one more time or just let her get on she’s on i look at you right on time i tried you know working in the mental health field you got to be on time yeah if you if you constantly talk about boundaries right i don’t honor other people’s boundaries and i’m just fraud um perfect lighting i love this you are probably the first guest who’s had like real good lighting that helps us so much

(03:35) when we’re making our little promo videos so thank you you’re very welcome i have two big lights that my partner got me just for these excellent awesome so before we jump in i want to double check with you um just to check your the output and input going on on the zoom so if you look on your zoom screen the bottom left should be a little like a mute icon and then next to it is a little arrow just click on that arrow and just make sure um jay did she have a microphone or she has one you do have one okay cool so

(04:03) just make sure your microphone’s selected there yep um and then your built-in output to your headphones headphones yep it says phones and headphones yeah i don’t know if you do that i just learned something cool yeah sometimes it for some reason defaults to something else and then we have to learn that later so i’ve been checking lately yay honored to meet you ladies and face-to-face and yeah thank you for inviting me for this and your flexibility with you know just making it happen i really came with you too yes

(04:32) thank you you were super flexible thank you welcome so she’s going to read that bio that i sent you and then we’ll just start asking questions yeah yeah okay enough all right with a master’s degree in psychology and a bachelor’s degree in sociology today’s guest is a renowned relationship coach with a passion for helping individuals and couples have healthier relationships with themselves and others she emigrated from syria to the u.

(04:59) s as a young child bringing her fascination of the critical role family culture plays in intimate relationships into the work she does today she has a background in the theatrical arts as well as in film production and interestingly utilizes her knowledge in those areas in her relationship therapy she’s an expert in teaching practical relationship skills and how to have healthy boundaries and we are huge fans of her instagram account and her podcast where she’s constantly dropping knowledge on these topics we’re thrilled to be learning from her

(05:29) today how to turn conflict into connection and how to love with integrity so with that please welcome sylvie kukasian thank you for the lovely introduction thank you hey that’s all you we’re so excited for this um [Music] you most often talk about boundaries so our first question is we wanted to ask you how you define what boundaries are yeah it’s a question i often get definitely you know there’s so much confusion around how to recognize where our limits are where’s our no where’s our yes and so

(06:10) you know it’s a combination of an intuitive feeling we have in our body but it’s also it’s it’s a it’s a limit that protects our integrity it protects our emotional integrity our mental integrity our physical integrity and our spiritual integrity and so what we do to preserve those things is where our boundaries and limits need to be and you know what i love to say about uh boundaries is that they’re so evolving as we are right if we have a wound or an emotional scarring around something we’re gonna be more protective

(06:43) around exposing that or even sharing that with other people but as we start to feel safer and healed in that particular um in that particular area we’re going to recognize that okay this is an area that i can start to soften this boundary around so that’s a distinction i like to make right away that they change they evolve they’re not fixed they’re very situational environmental environmentally influenced [Music] will you explain the four boundary violations that you have spoken about often sure

(07:16) so the four main ones um and this is by the work of raquel lerner i like to give credit to the people that came up with these um she identified that there’s four different boundaries that we can start to be more aware of so that we can start choosing differently and so we have our physical boundary which is of course our skin our and that’s the most obvious one that we can get okay if someone hits me or touches me inappropriately i’m likely to just know that that this is not feel good and potentially say

(07:47) something not to say that you know we might not we might still feel uncomfortable or you know of course in dangerous situations we might be afraid to speak up in those situations but we can still more easily know that this is wrong right and so that oftentimes gets really impacted if we were abused or you know not really respected for those physical limits as children and so it’s like those red flags start to not work well and we are not really able to differentiate healthy touch from loving touch yeah so that’s the that’s the one i like to

(08:23) start with because it’s it’s the one that’s easiest for people to understand um and then we have emotional boundaries and emotional boundaries are um you know our privacy our emotional expression and the ways that these get violated are let’s say you’re a child and you had a parent that you know your parents were going through a divorce and one parent leaves and the other parent now turns you into a surrogate spouse and they start venting and over sharing things with you or you’re responsible

(08:54) for now instead of being taken care of yourself emotionally you’re now regulating your parent wow yeah and so that’s so confusing for a child no child can tolerate that it’s overwhelming and it creates a very um it’s called a parentified child where that child then goes into relationships of course feeling codependent taking care of another person putting them and their needs above their own and not recognizing why they feel so angry and resentful and confused you know is that one does that one make

(09:26) sense yeah that one resonates i mean i just feel like everything you know i’ve read through all of your stuff i’ve listened to a lot of your your podcast and whatnot so i’ve heard you talk about these and i want you to finish describing these different boundaries but that specific one i i’m like being triggered by it because not not necessarily my specific life but i have like a really close friend who i know is dealing with this boundary right now like just trying to set it and it’s the biggest struggle you know it’s just

(09:54) how do you become and even setting a boundary feels like the work of a parent in a sense you know so that’s got to be a really hard one to set it’s so hard because it’s like it becomes so much part of our identity like we think this is my role you know we’re all given different roles as children you know it’s like it’s not just changing changing one person’s boundary affects everyone in the system and so if that person’s role has been to be the comforter and the emotional regular of the family changing that even

(10:24) you know intellectually might seem like the healthy and right thing to do but it does involve often a lot of grieving and recognition of all those times where their needs were you know dismissed and this is where codependency comes in huh exactly exactly yeah where the codependent you know habits of putting somebody else’s needs ahead of our own and not even being aware that we’re doing it yeah recognizing that even we can be in the same room as somebody and we’re scanning for okay how can i take

(10:52) care of it and instead of even just being able to be in tune with and present with what’s happening for yourself yeah and so the other the other two um we have intellectual boundaries this is the one that really blew my mind and i didn’t know i had no idea of this concept and you know in the same way that our emotions need to be validated and honored when we’re kids we also need our you know perception and our what we’re what we’re seeing when we’re young you know what’s happening at home is it

(11:23) being talked about are are my parents acknowledging that they’re getting divorced are they acknowledging that there’s drinking or that mommy is really sick and can’t get out of bed it’s not to say that kids are supposed to know all the details that’s you know a violation of the emotional boundary but it’s the ability to say you know mom and dad are going through a heart attack or mom and mom or dad and dad i want to be really inclusive of the different you know relationship orientations um

(11:51) you know it’s it’s being able to put the experience that the child is having into context also appropriate for their development and their aid and so what happens if we don’t have anyone validating us we don’t really know how to make sense of our reality then we are usually drawn to people who are really charismatic they get really assertive they’re they’re the ones that make all the choices because we don’t know how to do that for ourselves you know yeah and um it creates a lot of confusion one of the

(12:24) one of the tools i often give people that really struggle with the intellectual boundaries is journaling but like not like just journaling the day almost like um like a journalist like what you saw almost like matter of fact that you’re validating yourself exactly you’re reparenting the part of you that didn’t get permission to do that when you were younger and you can just sit with yourself and validate you so then when other people do invalidate you you’re more likely to set a boundary hey you

(12:52) know yeah i get that this might not be what how you see things but this is how i see them and it’s really important for me that you’re actually acknowledging and validating yeah and so is it also not like covering up not wanting to talk about the divorce but is it also like the narcissistic abusive parent that tells um the child that she’s lying when she tells people she’s being abused um absolutely i know i don’t know if i have noticed that with some parents a lot of parents that i know that abuse

(13:23) their children um especially in my family they tend to say that never happened and i’ve always been curious if it’s because they’re blocking it out because they’re in denial and they’re in shame or if it’s because um they’re now on meds and it changed their like altered their i’ve never understood it but that’s where i saw like maybe it could affect people too is when they’re told they’re a liar when they’re talking about their oh my gosh absolutely and even more damaging that

(13:52) way when now not only are you seeing something but asking if you’re saying it’s different yeah right you can’t process it and it integrated a lot of kids that have had that experience grow up to have high anxiety and just like fear of you know being able to just be with their own experiences absolutely what you’re saying is very much what gaslighting is you know that didn’t happen it wasn’t a big deal that you know why are you making such a big fuss about or even worse what you said it didn’t happen at all

(14:22) so that is very very very very deeply confusing and the ironic thing is we tend to be attracted to the very kinds of people that violate our boundaries that’s what’s so so interesting so that happened as a child and then i ended up dating someone who was an alcoholic so he literally wouldn’t remember it how it was so i don’t know if he was purposely gaslighting or just didn’t remember but um and we want to hear about the fourth one but i’m interested too how people can is there a certain thing people can do

(14:52) um that makes them recognize that they are aren’t crazy and that this is yeah really someone just gaslight gaslighting you’re saying yeah totally well i think that’s where the psycho education in the mental health community is so important you know when we start to learn okay this is healthy and this is actually not healthy we start to have a more of a cognitive awareness and we when we start to feel validated whether you’re working with a coach or a therapist and you tell your story and they’re like no this is not okay your

(15:23) story is valid this person may not remember it in the same way that you do but them approaching you and invalidating your experience is not okay and this is actually very appropriate for you to say something and see how they respond if they continue to do what they’re doing then you get to choose if you want to continue a relationship with this person because you’re right sometimes people you know they bring their own stuff you know we we all violate boundaries you know some people in much more extreme ways but i believe all of us are

(15:54) violating boundaries unknowingly constantly so i think we have a responsibility to speak up not just for ourselves but to even give the other person a chance to just they’re capable of showing up i would not recommend doing this with someone that is an extreme gaslighter or abusive you know that that’s just not i would not recommend that and i suppose once you’re conscious of the boundaries you um weren’t given as a child once you’re conscious of those then you’re able to recognize them

(16:24) as an adult right away in a relationship so i guess the the number one step is coming face to face with that what boundaries that was i not given as a child yes and validating your own experience because what happens is when when we’re denied when we’re not validated we do the same thing to ourselves it goes out the same way it went in and so if if our reality was denied we’re likely to minimize it ourselves oh isn’t the big deal my feelings will matter you know i can get over it you know we talk

(16:54) ourselves out of our experience whereas the work is no let me just see how i really feel let me just kind of sit with do i really agree with this person or am i just doing that because that’s what i was forced to do as a child you know so giving ourselves permission to slow down and really feel and think about what’s actually happening and this is a hard process you know i really want to acknowledge that for for you guys super hard especially if you’ve developed a codependency then it’s like it’s a catch-22 almost

(17:25) it really is and even doing this work for as many years as i have it’s still very hard for me to recognize you know when certain boundaries are violated it takes a lot for me to be able to just speak on that or feel like i can stand up for myself in you know it just happened somebody sent me a message on my instagram and it was a very mean message and i was like this is not okay this is really hard this is not this is not okay yeah and even just being able to say that even though the part of me is like oh they didn’t mean it their

(17:53) intention was nice you know i go through all these things but you know my practice is actually speaking the boundary when someone is actually really being mean and being okay if they don’t like me you know yeah back and if they’re not willing to kind of see their harsh and hurtful approach that’s no longer my responsibility i continue to be overly nice and overly considerate that’s when i lean into my codependency which is very comfortable for me to go to all right so what’s that fourth one yeah

(18:24) so the fourth one is the spiritual boundaries and this you know it’s interesting i have been seeing a lot of posts on facebook lately with um and again i respect all religions and spiritual beliefs i’m very you know open when it comes to accepting you know whatever somebody believes and yet i think with organized religion we we can oftentimes bypass what somebody’s experiencing and try to get them to to a higher state of consciousness when they’re not ready to go there that’s what a violation of a spiritual

(19:00) boundary is let me take this verse out of the quran or the bible or the you know or whatever religious or spiritual belief and let me read this to you instead of meeting the person in their pain in their experience and validating it it’s using some kind of spiritual lingo you know the law of the the the law of blaking out law of attraction you know when that came out everybody was you know telling each other preaching it you manifested this make this happen you know it’s like that’s the last person somebody that’s

(19:34) having a mental or emotional breakdown wants to hear or needs you’re for that right so it’s think of the the spiritual boundary it’s a bypass and it can also happen in um in a lot of organizational healing places where it’s very mission oriented they want to get you the transformation in a three-day workshop and you’re like uh i’m not ready to go there yet maybe in a couple more days you know but it’s like this rush to get you to work on and face and face this vulnerability so that

(20:05) you can go beyond it but it can often cause us to really shut down internally and um actually delay the healing process even more yeah tricky it’s like the person doing healing work has to be really sensitive to the person in front of them and you know to really be able to honor their pace and not make it about their own agenda yeah that’s where it gets tricky when it comes to group settings and so that’s something the difference between healing and fixing exactly exactly and the difference between going

(20:35) to a professional therapist and then or just reading a book and trying to do it at home with your spouse right totally probably not the safest setting probably it’s hard i think that a lot of that in this boundary is based in fear because it’s like um especially with organized religion you’re like fearing that they’re gonna be damned to hell so you’re trying to save them and then with um even the healing you’re like fearing that they’re gonna be in pain or they’re not gonna um

(21:00) become conscious so you’re trying you know so it seems all based in fear in that one totally and and think about it what you’re saying is like it’s basically about me not about you but it’s like it’s my fear that you’re not gonna do x or my fear that you’re gonna go to hell and that’s actually one of the things that a lot of you know spiritual people can do is they instill that terror in a child at an age where they can’t even deal with that emotion yeah and so they walk around just feeling scared to make

(21:27) a mistake or they put their parents on such a pedestal because you know a parent that is spiritual but that is not conscious of the mental health realities can maybe they don’t share their vulnerabilities with their kids because they’re bypassing their own experience due to their spiritual belief or their conscious faith and so then the child is like well i don’t have a reference point i have to be this godly figure but i’m in pain so they are constantly feeling a shame and terror for for just basically being human yeah

(22:00) yeah and what i’m hearing is that it stems also back to codependency um in the fact that the person that’s pushing let’s say spirituality on somebody else wants them to save their soul you know whatever it is i don’t know they’re pushing but wants them to save their soul so that they can still have them in their next life or whatever the belief is otherwise they will be the one in pain you know it’s not really it seems it’s almost never about i don’t even know a circumstance i can call to

(22:29) mind where it’s about someone else genuinely like it always is some selfish nature it seems does that feel accurate at all well i think when parents can introduce spirituality and a religion in a way that’s a more more of a guided approach and answers their kids questions but doesn’t it’s not doing it in a forceful way or in a punishing way then that child has you know we want to guide our kids to believe in similar things especially if we think that they’re good for us you know i think that’s understandable

(23:02) completely and but i think we get into trouble like you said when we’re doing and we have like these huge agendas that a child cannot possibly fulfill and it’s extremely damaging for a child to be responsible for something like that and there’s so many extremes and different religions but i do think that um that this is coming much more to surface the lack of that mental aware mental health awareness in a lot of this in a lot of major religions i think that’s coming coming out more and more yeah so

(23:38) you guys brought up or one of you two brought up that we’re often attracted to whatever it is the um boundary that we’re having issues setting we’re usually attracted to the person that kind of probably feels safer yeah the repeat of the the wound i guess it is um from a younger childhood trauma or whatever it was that brought this boundary or lack of boundary i guess into our life is that the case is that um how do i want to formulate this question do we seek out a way to heal old wounds through our

(24:13) relationships with other people um and how do boundaries play into that beautiful question and the short answer is yes we unconsciously attract familiar and part of it is exactly what you said mercedes it’s it’s the it’s the un it’s like we’re not aware that we’re trying to heal it but we’re we’re trying to close the close the cycle in a healed way you know and so our brains are very pattern and they’re extremely pattern and the ways that we’ve been wired and all the memories and the kinds of experiences

(24:47) we’ve had here is a person that’s very similar to mom or dad or to my siblings or and so i’m gonna be naturally drawn to somebody that feels so familiar and cozy and homey and all these things and so yes and the the beautiful news is that that doesn’t always end up in a bad way you know i’ve seen many couples pair up perf with perfectly matching wounds you know this person’s wound you know is a perfect mirror for this person’s mood and they trigger the sh you know the shenanigans out of each

(25:16) other and we don’t want them to stay there you know it’s okay for people to trigger each other’s stuff but they’re they have to develop a way to stand up for themselves stand up for their needs and to communicate what what’s important for them and also taking consideration their partners vulnerabilities and sensitivities too so sometimes there can you know be some something really healing that can come out of a situation that uh starts off in more of a not so healthy way but with if both partners are committed to doing the work

(25:49) and you know i like to talk with my hands they’re doing their own talking right now okay but not always you know we hear this concept of trauma bonding and i don’t do too in-depth work around that but of course if the wounds are so deep and they’re touching each other in ways that keep both partners dysregulated and it’s just so toxic that might not be you know a situation we want to stay in but every partner is going to trigger us and is this person responding to you know the boundaries that are important to me are they

(26:21) willing to do the work am i willing to respond to the boundaries that are important to them you know i often share the example you know me and my partner you know my emotional boundaries have been a really important part of my journey and his intellectual boundaries have been a really huge part of his and in the beginning of our relationship i when i was so committed to being right at all costs i would you know be like my version is the right version you know and it what it didn’t work for him and you know he didn’t say something for a

(26:48) long time because he wasn’t even aware that he felt violated and so when he finally had the courage to tell me i was like you know like i’m doing this to my partner and this is not okay and i still do it without realizing when i’m in a trigger state and my work is recognizing that okay i just stepped on the line who call myself out do the repair so that he feels validated because that’s so important you know but you know that’s a choice that we make do we want to be a partner that’s going to

(27:21) be an advocate for our partners healing or are we you know just going to continue to bypass their needs and not make their boundaries important to us yeah it’s such a powerful powerful tool to be able to recognize it first off and then see when it comes up every time and you know draw yourself out of your ego head or you know draw yourself into a place where you can be emotionally sober enough to act from your heart instead of your yeah your head i guess in that case and i and we’re gonna ask you about how do we set

(27:50) these boundaries and i know that that is trickier probably than it even sounds um but i wanted to ask you just because right now we’re studying up for a guest of ours that’s gonna you know we’re talking we talk a lot about open relationships and all types of different relationship styles well she is in an open relationship and has a a child and so a young child now but we were talking about boundaries earlier and it being like where do you cross the line with kids and telling them too much and that type of thing when it comes to

(28:21) something like an open relationship how do you navigate that without crossing boundaries with a child you know i think that giving children a general theme is usually where we want to we want to kind of stay again depending on their age it’s really really different but you know for a four-year-old child you know where we we can maybe let me let me stick to a better age maybe like a you know six-year-old child you know letting them know you know mom and daddy maybe have or mommy mommy you know whatever the dynamic is have you

(28:57) know a different kind of relationship dynamic than maybe other couples that you see around and we just want you to know that that’s okay and if you ever have any questions you can always come to us and um you know i think that there’s fluidity there but i think obviously the details of what happens in that relationship does not necessarily need to be shared you know i wouldn’t you know share what’s happening sexually or you know or even maybe you know recognizing that kids at a certain young age can’t even

(29:25) handle a lot of sexual content that’s overwhelming for their system they can’t and so i think that them witnessing the couple even just in having a healthy relationship is so powerful in itself you know being able to have you know having the model and being able to treat each other with respect and honor that’s huge but also what are some of the concerns that my children might think about at this age you know what are some of the objections that they might you know feel or concerns and how to address

(29:52) those in a general way i don’t work too in depth with parenting stuff but i do know that we have to be very careful with unloading too many of those details and um you know i highly recommend working with someone when you’re when you’re in that situation to kind of help you recognize okay for this age at what age can i start introducing sex or what age can i start you know answering questions in a little bit more in depth but does that help a little bit yeah totally yeah um so how do mercedes said our next

(30:22) question how do we set boundaries so how do we set boundaries the first piece is you know like you mentioned jade it’s the recognition piece it’s the validating ourselves because we’re not going to do a good job of setting the boundary when it comes out in an aggressive and harsh way which a lot of times it does when we’ve been so constipated and not expressive of our our limits you know it can come out in like a via volcanic way yeah and so spending some time recognizing you know that’s why i love

(30:52) maps you know i work a lot with attachment styles i work a lot with the boundaries map and i don’t like to use them in a in a fixed rigid way i really like to use them as a tool again psycho education to really help us understand what are the specific boundaries that speak to me in particular and own that and validate that validate that for myself and then start bringing them into the relationship you know if it’s an emotional boundary you know i’ll give you a practical example if somebody is not really um

(31:25) you’re let’s say jade you’re feeling really sad and you’re sharing that you feel sad with your partner and your partner’s like oh is that a big deal you know this is not we’ve talked about this and so you standing up for yourself for your emotions would look like you know i get that this might be hard for you but i’m having an emotional experience around this and it’s really important for me that you’re able to to honor and validate that in order for them to feel close to you

(31:49) and so i really especially when it comes to intimate relationships which is what i tend to you know focus on i like to be inclusive in the way the boundaries delivered how is a boundary going to serve this person so it doesn’t always feel like i’m just saying no this is what i need and this is what’s what is going to help me with you it’s going to help me feel closer with you it’s going to help me feel more connected and seen and safe and of course if the person responds harshly to that then we can you know crank it up and be

(32:17) a little bit firmer and express my boundary i i don’t know what’s getting in the way of you hearing it um but this is what i need and if you need to take some time we can cool off but this is important and so being really firm and honoring that container that’s around you that emotional physical that you know all of that that we’re have we have to be advocates for another in order for other people to really to really value that in ourselves as well yeah and i heard you talk about um kind of i guess the way i received it

(32:49) was planting a seed with a partner too like it doesn’t have to be something you are pushing so firmly on them in that moment but you mention it you allow it to resonate and sit in like this is something that’s really important you use the words that are you know critical in getting the point across that this is really important to you and then allow it to kind of rest with them for a while i love yes that’s huge because i know for me in the past i’ve tried to drill it in yeah and it doesn’t work you know

(33:18) first of all they’re gonna this you know if they’re gonna disconnect after three sentences yeah less you know but just being able to recognize okay i’ve said what i need to say let me back off now and let me observe let me see is there any effort being made are they trying um or is there an openness maybe you know your partner’s like i don’t really see what you’re pointing at you know let’s say you’re like when we’re in public together you talk over me and i really don’t like

(33:44) that that does not feel good for me i’m not necessarily saying hey this is a boundary that i have if anything i actually suggest for people to not use the word boundaries because it can be confusing and people what the hell is this person talking about right just in your language and in your energetic expression you’re creating a boundary statement and so when you do this when you talk over me i feel really uncomfortable i really need you to let me have space to speak when we’re out and then if your

(34:12) partner is still doing it over and over again again because their brain is really patterned they might not even be conscious of this you can absolutely you know negotiate a way to do that in places where you can actually let them know or have a tap on their knee or have some kind of communication you know when me and my partner are out in public places i have to leave by a certain amount of time or i’ll get overwhelmed but poor guy is having such a great time he doesn’t want to leave you know he’s

(34:37) like oh i just got here i want to enjoy and connect with people but we’ve had to negotiate ways where i still need to you know i’m leaning in to more of my discomfort and he’s leaning into his discomfort and so now i just make a little like i just like we can’t even tell i’m overwhelmed you know it’s like that’s my limit i can’t go beyond this if he’s if he doesn’t come with me i leave yeah i have to leave it’s not even i’m not doing it as a punishment right i have to take

(35:05) care of myself yeah and he does he he gets this you know but it’s taken us a long time to figure out and you know i think a lot of times people assume that just because i’ve i’ve expressed the boundary that okay why my partner’s not getting it they must not love me they must not respect me no sometimes it’s just we need more time our brains are not really comprehending what the what the need exactly is and are they open are they receptive are they listening are they making effort to try to understand this is where i try to

(35:35) so how about if they’re not like how about if it’s not a loving relationship not that so um for instance with me and my mother or me and my children’s father um they constantly overstep boundaries and i get extremely triggered because to me it’s the same you know being raised and then being with this man for a certain amount of time it’s i get triggered the same exact way and it’s still trying my piece but it also makes me react to them in a way that i don’t want to so if it’s a

(36:03) situation where the other person is not caring about the boundaries and they’re not open to it um but you still need these people in your life for you know their either family or your children’s father or whatever situation how would you set a boundary in that um circumstance and how would you also try to keep yourself from being so triggered so that you’re not stepping into your ego and making it you know way worse yeah it’s hard i mean i get this question so much you know particularly with family dynamics you know or parents

(36:34) that are older that they’re like what the hell is a boundary like you’re i get to come in your space whenever i feel like and i’m your parent and it’s like you should love me loyalty boundary sounds like rule yeah it does and there’s like just they don’t understand the concept of that and you know there’s no right or wrong way to deal with this i mean every family and system has their way of dealing with this but i think if we want to do something different the way to that would be to instill healthy

(37:03) consequences and not ultimatum like you’re saying but really what is something that i can instill that will take care of me so i don’t go to that extreme place but that i can still preserve a relationship if i want to if i want to keep a relationship with this person or my you know whoever this person is how can i maintain it in a way where i’m not constantly feeling like i’m this is what’s happening and sometimes you know with clients i recommend it maybe you only see a parent in a group setting you

(37:29) know maybe you don’t see them alone so it kind of diffuses the energy and i would encourage you know anyone to to speak the limit first you know i know that i brought this to you a lot i know that i don’t believe that you’re doing this maliciously again some people are but if you don’t believe that it’s important to speak to that however i feel really bad when this happens and if this continues i’m going to have to do x and that’s up to the person to really decide what that’s going to look like

(38:03) but it’s essential to hold you know firmly to that limit so that people you know really take it seriously and it’s the hardest with family it’s the hardest i think even more than intimate relationships because families are there the system has been rooted and implemented for years and years and years and changing again our role in that system forces everybody to change and people don’t want to change yeah do you see um women lacking boundaries more than men no actually i see that men you know we

(38:39) live in a time i think especially within within the spiritual community right now i noticed that men are encouraged to be in their masculine and take on the woman’s emotion and just stand there and be this rock and i think there’s a lot of emotional abuse happening with men actually you know and men women are entitled to being angry and frustrated and all these things that’s valid and yet i think that sometimes because men have so much guilt and want to be good and repair is so much of the damage that has taken place historically with

(39:07) women they’ll actually just kind of allow themselves to take on emotional abuse and they don’t set boundaries because they don’t feel like they have the permission to do it they feel like now they’re going to be weak or other men are you know holding this masculine almost god-like entity which is so not realistic you know it’s okay and what i often coach the men i work with is you know redirect your partner if they’re in an emotional expression say something i want you to express yourself your

(39:37) feelings are so important to me just don’t criticize me or please just do it in a way so i can stay present so i can hear you and i can’t tell you how many women appreciate that yeah turned on by that right setting that precedence is really really the masculinity that we’re probably begging for you know it actually makes me think of um this for some reason the visual of like a siberia a big siberian husky dog and a little chihuahua dog and the little chihuahua was always bossing the husky round and jumping all over him and

(40:07) totally crossing all the boundaries and the huskies like i see you you’re ridiculous you know but i love you and i don’t think any of us want to act out like that you know i don’t i don’t i mean i know when i’ve responded in extreme ways with my partner it’s been really helpful when he set a boundary in the middle of a conflict but respectfully you know hey you know not meeting me in my own crazy you know but just really speaking to the limit so that the container of what needs to come

(40:39) up actually is more beneficial to the relationship yeah there’s so much work to be done done i feel like in the the realm of navigating the ego in between how you perceive when someone else is acting from something that’s for themselves or acting at you you know like doing something to you and i think that we we think most of time of course we all think we’re the center of our own universe and to some degree we are and so we think that you know everything is happening at us and to us and we’re we’re being you know pointed out and

(41:14) blamed out whatever but if we can kind of re-adjust that perspective so that to remember that every time we act at something it’s actually us acting from a place of our own you know domestications our own traumas and um and if we can do that then we can realize that anytime someone else feels like they are um triggering us it’s coming from something going on in them and not going on in us you know there’s vindictive vengeful things that i’m sure happen and that’s probably a lot more that’s really

(41:49) obvious when that’s happening but i think otherwise for the most part it feels like we’re all just kind of reacting from our own domestications and traumas absolutely and and so much of our brains you know we go into flight fight or freeze and it’s not so much the details of what’s happening but it’s just that intense fear is overwhelming that’s why i love you know gottman institute he’s a huge um distant mentor a mentor that he doesn’t know he’s my mentor he’s a mentor in his

(42:17) work and um his his work along with his wife julie gottman you know they really advocate for that break you know that 20-minute break when you’re in that you’re the part of your brain that has access to reason and healthy logic is gone yeah trying to solve a solvent issue or create some kind of understanding in that place is unlikely to happen that’s why if you can if you can start to recognize that a boundary is about to be crossed if you can call it out sooner you might be able to stay engaged in the conflict but if

(42:46) you’ve already gone beyond that point you got to take that break and just allow yourself space to de-escalate yeah that that makes me think about hormones and chemicals you know and these things and we can i think that’s a huge part of this too is just starting to understand your body more in the physiology of what’s going on and when you feel the the emotion come up you know that you’re triggering these chemicals to come up which means you have to move them through your body before you can react from an emotionally

(43:12) sober place so that’s 100 magic trick there it is it is and if we can even just speak a tiny little bit to our partner while we’re triggered that can be huge you know like i get that you’re you know i’m in a shitty you know i’m having an experience and i i i love you you know i care about you just like if we can speak in a simple small way a way that we’re we’re also taking into account our partners there our partner’s they’re still having and to witness what they’re experiencing then we start to

(43:44) move more towards a secure functioning and collaborative approach i think that’s you know what has been one of the biggest um realizations in you know doing attachment theory work which i know we didn’t get into on this call but you know for for people that are aware of this um you know some of us depending on how we grew up you know forced us to be really self-focused and not so much other focus so we tend to you know for more anxious we’re so afraid of not getting connection that will cling and we’ll you know we’ll just kind of

(44:15) approach our partner in really intense ways that pushes them away before more avoidant will shut down and we’ll just kind of protect ourselves but then we’ll end up leaving our partner out in the cold so it’s like the way to secure functioning is to be able to recognize you know those those harmful behaviors in relationships and start to incorporate our partner in our experience bringing them in being sensitive to how we’re likely affecting them and when we’re behaving in those unhealthy ways

(44:45) why do we sometimes not set boundaries is it because we’re afraid of disconnection or conflict or is it just because they’ve been violated throughout our childhood and we just don’t know how do you think i think it’s everything that you just said all of the above i think you know we all want to feel accepted and we all want to fit in nobody likes feeling like they’re rocking the boat but if you grow up in an environment where your boundaries were deeply violated you likely don’t know that they’re being

(45:16) violated you know that’s why we are drawn to people that are so similar and even though on some level we know that something’s funky but we’re still we’re still sticking around and so it’s hard it’s like those red flag alert systems they’re not working well they’re not working properly yeah and you know a lot of times when i’m working with a client i’ll give them a suggestion to try out a boundary just to see how it feels and it’s not a boundary that they would ever

(45:44) do on their own you know it’s almost like try this thing and see how it feels and does it help you does it make you feel closer does it make you feel more connected to yourself and more integrity does it you know just observe yourself as you try on this thing that you would never probably do on your own so it’s like being open to uh to playing around with things that are that are not necessarily things we would do naturally so yes to go back to your question today those reasons along with um sometimes just not having the language

(46:19) if we didn’t see anyone model how to do it well we might have an awareness that there’s a boundary but and that’s why a lot a lot of what i like to focus on my work is the practical stuff like how do you do it i don’t know what do i what do i say or how do i say without offending my my person or my friend and i don’t expect people to copy paste you know what i say but it helps when we see someone else doing it and we have the language it kind of sparks things in us to figure out okay what’s a way that i can apply this and

(46:48) find my own version here and after we do that how would we tend to our partners after we’ve set that boundary um so that depends on your partner the person you know some people don’t necessarily need anything you know some people are fine i’ve i’ve expressed boundaries with people and i’ve seen people couples that i’ve worked with that their partner is capable of hearing it and they don’t feel rejected they don’t feel like you know it’s not they don’t make it about them they’re able to just hold

(47:16) space that this is something my partner needs and that’s fine so it’s like paying attention to the response if you see your partner go into shame then that means that they likely were perhaps maybe they didn’t have boundaries as a child themselves so they don’t recognize this need or this process and so you might not necessarily do it in that exact moment but you can comfort them i know it’s hard i know you’re really excited about going to this event and me saying no last minute probably really

(47:45) sucks and if i was in your shoes i would feel really you know crappy too so it’s just empathizing you know empathizing yeah it’s all it’s really just again it’s taking care of yourself but also bringing your partner in again and whoever it is into the equation and i think that’s where it gets tricky is like we often see a lot of messages with to set the boundary and then just be done well that’s okay with a stranger and that’s okay you don’t want to have a relationship with her somebody that’s

(48:13) being abusive i don’t know about you when somebody sets a boundary with me or you know something that kind of feels like an awkward conversation i like to be approached with sensitivity and control yeah don’t you guys for sure yeah so oh go ahead i was just gonna say that i think what you’re setting out here these boundaries like being able to come up against these uncomfortable places that we gotta go okay this is something i’ve got to lay out for my partner for my relationship with my friends and family because it’s

(48:46) i’m going to grow more from it however i have to take the very very uncomfortable step to do that and that’s what makes humans these incredible beings that are progressive and able to thrive the way we have because we’re willing to do uncomfortable [ __ ] to get to the better you know the other side to get to the the better evolution of whatever we could be i think that’s like what we have up on every other animal out there we’re willing to do something consciously uncomfortable we know we’re going into

(49:15) it and it’s going to suck but we’re going to do it because we can pre you know we can predict enough into the future that we know that it has a likelihood of coming out better for us later so anyone listening maybe that can be inspiring like you are you were born a human being so this is part of your work while you’re here is stepping into that uncomfortable gray area just to make it to the other side yeah and even just reminding people you know i think that it’s okay if you do it shitty yeah

(49:42) we’re gonna fix practice screw up boundaries i don’t know anybody that doesn’t screw up boundaries sometimes or come off like an you know i don’t know if i could say the a-whole word anything you know come off like just a [ __ ] in a shitty way and there’s always the repair and that’s the most important thing that if we if we do do make a mistake or if we you know do violate in a way that’s just not at all our intention we can always own it i really tried to do that that was not how

(50:10) at all how i pictured how it would come out you know and yeah i’m aware that the way that i just spoke my boundary was bizarre and i’m working on it okay i’m working on it too yeah yeah humility humility exactly humility and empathy um we do have a couple questions from our followers um really quick and one of them we call them our magic bob uh leslie says i’ve heard you speak about the importance of taking ownership of the shitty things we did in recent conflict with our partner could you explain how neglecting this

(50:42) can create a loss of trust over time can you repeat the second part of that jade i just want to make sure i understood it could you explain how neglecting this can create a loss of trust over time the neglecting the repair mm-hmm yes well it’s perfect weaving from what yeah timing of the universe at home talking about taking on the importance of taking ownership of the shitty things we did in conflict with our partner which is just just what we know we’re just talking about you know just really acknowledging and well that and that

(51:12) takes self-awareness you know we have to be able it’s not the butterflies and the love and the good stuff that ruins relationships it’s this it’s the inability to take ownership and inability to recognize that we all have limitations we all have deficits we all have vulnerabilities that get in the way and i think if we don’t have an awareness of that or if we’re not willing to listen to our partner’s feedback of course we’re going to lose that safety and trust yes so because then we won’t feel validated

(51:42) we’re going to constantly be spinning around in our own head and trying to make sense of things and feel completely disconnected from our partner and over time you know that just you know stacks up on top of each other and the disconnection just continues to just grow and grow this doesn’t mean that every single time it has to be repaired perfectly but there has to be a solid emphasis and effort to validate each other yeah yeah it’s huge uh another question from the magic mob akeem asks where does shame start for us

(52:13) and how does it weave its way through our lives after childhood this is a big topic yes so shame is an interesting interesting thing shame starts to come online i think it’s at about one to two years old i might be wrong about the age but it’s a it’s an it’s a feeling that is the most painful for a child to experience and it basically happens when a child starts to feel really powerful in their being and they start to take more risky um actions and maybe they want to jump off the couch they want to do these things

(52:46) and so the parent starts to say no and as the parent says no the child feels shame automatic because the child doesn’t have separation from parent and self it’s like one person when the parent says no they feel the shame they hunch over you could literally see their physical being go down and it is excruciating so if a parent does not regulate that well for a child in the same way that you know how you said how do you comfort someone after a boundary you can if they go into shame that that’s an emotion that they

(53:17) struggle with and so if the parent didn’t do a good job of regulating that feeling for the child over and over i know this is hard for you mommy doesn’t like her dad he doesn’t like saying no but i have to this is important and obviously not in so much words for a one-year-old but comforting them holding them then the child gets disregulated in their shame experience as an adult and a lot of times when you’re bringing up something to your partner if they struggle with shame let’s say i you know

(53:45) this really hurt me mercedes you know i did this thing or jade this you know yesterday when you talked over me i felt really crappy if the person on the other side of that receiving it struggles with shame they might get angry because that’s a defense for shame or they might change the subject or you know basically spin everything around so they don’t actually actually ever have to confront what you’re saying because those things are easier to do than having to deal with feeling the shame [Music] this is a really common reason why

(54:15) people leave relationships i’ve found that they cannot regulate this experience which means that they oftentimes struggle with being empathic they have trouble saying i’m sorry they have trouble really getting their partner’s experience because they get really stuck and overwhelmed in their own experience yeah it’s definitely me i’m definitely you know shame based and i and i res that all resonates with me yeah and the way we can prevent that is um for our children is mostly through validating their feelings right yes and

(54:48) finding the way that your particular child needs comfort because every child needs different things you know what suits them and learning and you know part of the repair for a parent and child is paying attention to those nuances and tuning into you know some kids need more some kids actually need a little bit more space and figuring out um with trial and error but being committed to figuring that out is so important yeah i’ve heard you say too when it comes to to assisting in shame regulation with our partners

(55:16) it takes like 25 times of repeating this practice of empathy um in order for us to pick it up and use it consistently yes that’s what my therapist said i never forgot i never forgot it i told my partner right away i was like all right so we have about 23 we have 23 more rounds of these to go and i’m good it helps it helps yeah but it really did make a difference for people that are listening i would get in a shame spiral and i would get angry and all these things would happen and i was like what the heck is going on

(55:51) and so him just holding me you know that was the most helpful thing sometimes less is more less words just and allow that soothing and comforting as much as you can in small doses whatever you can tolerate over time as you feel more and more safe in the relationship and feel safe that okay if i do reach to my partner they’re going to be there that starts to again create more moisture i don’t think i’ve ever had that no [Laughter] not fun it’s not fun so our last um question from our followers is um well we actually had

(56:27) several people write in when we announced that you’d be on our show um many of them had questions about the attachment styles that you brought up and i know that that’s a really big topic but we were hoping that perhaps you could give us just an overview of what these attachment cells are and why identifying which we resonate which one we resonate with is helpful in our own self-growth self-growth and in our relationships yes this is a very big topic i’m like how do i how do i anxiously attached i’m pretty sure

(57:00) oh no you’re anxious oh yeah anxiously anxiously attached hopefully moving to securely attached secure functioning yeah secure functioning that’s it beautiful well i love the attachment styles is my meat and potatoes which i often say you know it’s been it’s ultimately i’m going to try to think about the most concise way to answer this um the way that we bonded with our primary caregiver the person that was in charge of emotionally regulating as it could be mom it can be dad it could be um uncle grandmother whoever was the

(57:32) main person that really had us in their care regulating our our emotions how that relationship was and how the caregiver responded to us when we had needs and when we you know we’re expressing certain things that we needed that is what creates the attachment style so if you grew up with a caregiver that was very attuned very responsive not perfect they still made mistakes but they repaired things very quickly they could sense okay that didn’t work let me try something else then you’re more likely to develop a

(58:05) safer feeling experience and intimate relationships again there’s so much here so i feel like i’m going to be skipping a lot but i want to just kind of touch on what i can um if we’re if we grew up with a caregiver that was kind of in and out sometimes they were available really well sometimes they weren’t so it’s like there was a lot of back and forth and sometimes even in invasive ways it creates a lot of confusion and anger and that person grows up in relationships where they’re they’re they’re never sure

(58:32) if the if the person they’re with is going to be available so they’re hypersensitive to threats they’re afraid of being abandoned and because they’ve had that connection so they yearn for it but they often express themselves in really indirect ways and in almost ways that um that ends up sabotaging the connection that they that they’re so yearning for and then we have people that are more dismissive avoidant which is that’s somebody that was left alone a lot as a child neglected on emotional level or

(59:00) their parent was really invasive so they shut down they regulate themselves and in intimate relationships they’re like the ceo type they’re really look confident and they have you know a strong sense of self business focus perhaps and just and they don’t really value intimate relationships on the surface that’s what at least that’s what it that’s what they show that’s not the truth but that’s what they show and so if they have a hard time being vulnerable being close responding to the needs of other

(59:30) people um and then you have fearful avoidance which is a lot newer the first two were john bolby and mary ainsworth and then later mary mayne brought in the fearful avoidance dismissive avoided and that usually comes from parents that have a lot of their own unresolved traumas i work with a lot of immigrant people that have this attachment style they they had a really traumatic journey away from where they came from and they’re often dysregulated and grieving and so they approach their children sometimes in harsh

(1:00:01) frightening or abusive ways and again it’s not intentional a lot of the times but the child both loves the parent and is deeply afraid of them and what’s interesting about the difference between avoided and fearful is that avoidant dismissive doesn’t really fear a lot feel a lot of high anxiety in relationships whereas the fearful of what it does so a lot of times people get the anxious and the fearful confused because they both feel anxiety but it’s manifested in a little bit in a different way and this is a

(1:00:30) spectrum you guys we can relate to more than one yeah not a black and white fit that there’s a lot of gray which is what you guys really yeah there’s gray in everything i don’t know which one of those like so knowing which one of those you resonate with most which i’m going to have to listen back to this interview and figure that out again um how does that help us in our own self-growth and and in our relationships great question helps so much if i’m more anxiously attached and having the map

(1:01:02) and understanding in the same way the boundaries maps helps is kind of like okay this is something i need to be more mindful of and speak up about if i’m more anxiously attached i kind of know that i don’t really approach my partner in a direct way i’m usually you know maybe i’m sarcastic maybe i’m you know i i maybe try to make them jealous to get their attention i know that i do that i’m on to myself so i can bring that awareness into the repair i can call myself out you know i realized what i

(1:01:29) just did i totally did that thing where what i really wanted to do was actually just ask you for some connection time and i don’t know how to do that i’m still learning i know there’s things about me that might push you away so you being able to recognize that about you then helps you validate what your partner is experiencing so you have the ability to reconnect again and i can’t tell you how fundamental this is because if we can’t validate how our partner experiences us that’s a disconnection

(1:02:02) and they’re gonna feel more and more like afraid that their experience is not being um is not being understood and cared about and empathized with whereas somebody you know dismissive avoidant perhaps again they go really internal they shut their partners out them knowing that about themselves on an objective level they can speak to that you know i really suck with for your needs when you have needs i want to run to the hills and that must feel like [ __ ] for you right you know and i i’m still working on it you know this is not something i’m

(1:02:40) completely you know i don’t know how to do this perfectly feels uncomfortable to share even share this with you but i know that it’s really important oh i think that’s so important so valuable because once you do that you just it creates most people go okay yeah i’m this thing and then they think they’re just gonna sit in that and maybe some will maybe some will be like yeah i’m you know fearful avoiding it so deal with it you know that’s their attitude but i think at some point we all want to

(1:03:08) be like evolving and growing i i hope that’s the case i don’t know that everyone’s all on the same track or speed of that but when you can be truthful with yourself and go i am this thing i know i have this issue you’re gonna probably take some time to look at it deeper and how to resolve it you know yeah and it also sounds like um no matter the style we all just really need to own our [ __ ] like yeah responsibility yeah exactly and i’ve seen so many different pairings people ask me all the time you know i’m

(1:03:38) avoidant and my partner is anxious can we work like yes doing the work aware of your own default mode absolutely and i love what you said mercedes because it’s so true we can know this stuff about ourselves and use it as a form of righteousness and almost an arrogant like oh they know myself that you know self-development skills and then there’s relational skills yes and i think that there is often not enough of a bridging of both of those how do i take the result and now actually use it in a way where i’m

(1:04:12) connecting with you and using it as a way not to you know just show that i’m self-aware and then i know all these things and i’m so conscious but nobody gives a [ __ ] how conscious we are yeah it doesn’t serve them in any way exactly yeah and we talk sometimes about uh relationship styles like wave anchor we’re both waves yeah so but of course we want to be anchors right we’re all working towards that thing but yeah it’s just like what you’re saying you know you can you can say you’re a gemini i can’t be with you

(1:04:47) i’m a leo that’s never gonna whatever you know whatever um or you’re an island i’m a wave it’s never going to work but i would invite people listening to take on the challenge of whatever the relationship style there you know they are and they come up against in their partners or other family members or whoever it is they’re in relationship with and their uh what do we call the attachments the attachment style relationship style all these things that we label ourselves with if they’re not exactly in line like you

(1:05:21) didn’t find that anchor you didn’t find that other person who’s in the same attachment style as you take on the challenge like there are tools out there for all of this this is this is kind of what the show’s about this is what your show’s about sophie so yeah this doesn’t mean it’s the end y’all can work through it it’s just the beginning [Laughter] all right so there’s a few short questions we like to ask everyone who comes on the show so first off if you could hug your younger self right now what would

(1:05:49) you say what i would say while i’m hugging her yeah oh this is a deep question i would say you are loved in spite of your mistakes [Music] are you and you’re hugging you was holding that how old are you how old do you think probably six five or six that’s good if you could have the whole world read one book which would it be one book um i would say at this moment it would be wired for love by stan technically oh i love that book yeah yeah yeah speaking of that’s a good one yes yeah that your brain on love is one of

(1:06:44) my favorites and it’s such a short easy read but do you have a book for um these types of relationship attention stuff yeah attachment styles do you have a book recommendation recommendation yes this is a couple there’s the power of attachment by diane poole heller the power of attachment yes that’s the right name attached by amir levine and rachel heller is a great one the reason i really like the power of attachment i’m still hugging myself here i was like that’s good uh the power of attachment is really

(1:07:17) great because it adds the um this that disorganize the fearful avoid attached which is not in a lot of the other ones it’s for you so for people that identify with that that would be where i would go and then the the wired for love by stantec and wired for dating which is the dating version of wireframes if you’re in the didn’t hear that one yeah figure out okay who’s going to be the right match who’s going to be more compatible for my kind of attachment and it’s a fantastic read how about for uh boundaries specifically

(1:07:47) do you have any book records on that i do i have um where to draw the line by aunt catherine fantastic fantastic a lot of uh practical again practical examples and different kinds of um breakdowns of where boundaries can be available for fantastic dependent no more by melody beatty helped me a lot with boundaries but i’m so glad that the book you listed is a book that i have like on my shelf so that makes me happy we’re gonna list all those in the show notes guys yeah all right if you could whisper one

(1:08:22) phrase to everyone on the planet what would it be whisper one phrase whisker i heard a whisker well she is a cat slow down connect and just know that everything’s gonna be okay hmm presents huh yeah that’s good yeah um before we let you go where can people find you online so the best place would be my instagram page that’s where i offer you know free content as as as daily as i can make it and lots of lives and posts oriented around the attachment styles and boundaries topics my website sylvie kukaskian and of course if anyone’s

(1:09:12) interested in practical tools for boundaries i also have a boundaries program so i don’t know if you want anything that’s so cool i don’t think a day goes by that i don’t share one of your posts to either my stories or in a dm so i was gonna say you called someone your mentor you’re like they don’t know i was like that’s you that’s you for me it’s so true we literally send them back and forth i think jade um but yeah i just want to say thank you so much for the work you’re doing because

(1:09:37) it is changing our lives even just through your instagram posts and you you really have a way of speaking about these topics it just comes across in a gentle manner yet still threatening impactful yeah and and and it gets people to think and that’s a skill in itself that is like an incredible talent so thank you so much for all the the effort you put into your work because i know it’s got to be a ton and it certainly made an impact on us here at the magic hour so thank you for being a light sylvie yeah

(1:10:08) and we don’t get to see your like your your beautiful face on instagram it’s like you know all the it’s the meat of all the knowledge and so it was so nice to like see your face you’re such a goddess it’s like radiating when you’re sharing this information so so cool to be able to witness that as well [Laughter] you both are so incredibly kind and you know sometimes when people reach out to you for these things and you can just feel their energy right away through like i just felt that from you both and

(1:10:36) it’s just so so special to to have that way of you know communicating with people on the online world you know yeah so deeply appreciate you both thank you thank you thank you so much yeah so we’ll um i guess like um about a week before your show airs we’ll give you a heads up and we’ll make some promo videos and and i will share the crap out of it too thank you so much i love promoting this stuff and it’s my way of saying thank you back absolutely thank you so much this is super special thank you hopefully we’ll do it again

(1:11:10) and we’ll get more in depth on attachment styles yeah god attachment styles is really we need a whole episode on that i’m sending you both ladies lots of love and lots of good great great energy for continuing your podcast and thank you yeah you’re welcome talk to you guys bye all right she was just a gem yeah yeah i like her a lot can we hang him sylvie she was um very much a like a really beautiful wise crow hmm that’s not your first crow ruthie was a girl ruthie was a crow yeah i was like who was it yeah ruthie’s a

(1:11:51) pro yeah they had a very similar energy even though they’re so different yeah they both had a really similar energy at the same time the crow is so uh such a strong type you know like it what’s it’s like between it’s like a messenger almost yeah between the spiritual world and the real world like isn’t it known for i i don’t want to make some game of thrones here but isn’t it like like almost like they have a third eye you know yeah there’s a that’s actually i think where they probably get that from that

(1:12:24) spirit animal but i know it has some similarities with cats so i don’t like that yeah they they’re like as a bridge but yeah the crow though has some like people kind of think of it as more as far as what i read because because my mom was thinking she was one remember and then ruthie was once we were reading about it but i want to say it’s something like um it has a mystical or like magical ability to yeah what i remember is they were kind of like a messenger from the spiritual world but like kind of like in and out of this yeah

(1:12:56) there was something about it when i was reading it and i don’t know how to articulate it but it gave me the sense that people sometimes fear the crow’s ability because it’s like magic quote-unquote magic you know something that they can’t understand so they of course fear anything they can’t understand but they are awesome they’re feared but they’re heavily misunderstood yeah interesting i love that stuff i like when you tell us what which one you saw when you have the energy to read it

(1:13:25) because it’s pretty cool yeah i never know if like if it’s fitting to bring up in the interview but then as soon as i know i’m [Laughter] speaking of which my cat’s meowing in the background she’ll probably give us a couple sounds like did you you rang that’s funny um sylvie might be able to tell us our attachment styles but we could tell her well you could tell her your uh her spirit animal and i’ll translate it by reading the book directly funny yeah that’s a good idea you should

(1:14:00) memorize what they all mean and i can just i’ll recognize them and then you oh it’s a good program down all right all right so my magic trick is actually um besides that it’ll be related um it’s really simple but um [Music] this is just so she already talked about ways to set boundaries but this is just five specific things you can say during conflict and this i saved this to my phone so like whenever she posted it but it’s been a while so these are five things you can say during conflict that i really liked

(1:14:34) one could you express that differently like that’s non-threatening and it’s just good yeah yeah and then this could you bring your tone down a bit so i can stay present the fact that you’re saying so i can stay present that’s it so good so good and then i really need my perspective validated before i can continue that’s a firm one but it’s really good and then with the emotionally sober tone i think you can get really uh yeah yeah let’s please take a time out and just hold hands for a few moments i really

(1:15:07) like that one that’s so you right there so me i have never had a partner that would say yes to that by the way have you asked it a lot i have yeah and i’ve also brought up later after we’ve made up that i wish that they would have been open to that damn because i’m trying to picture sorry to bust up your magic trick in the middle of it but i’m trying to picture say getting the courage and vulnerability you know mustered up to say that in the middle of a heated or imagine saying and then getting pushed

(1:15:36) away that’s what i’m saying that’s what they’re like yeah to get to get the balls to do it and then to someone to tell you nah it would be like no don’t come here so i guess that’s why we’re afraid to say some of these things is because what if we get denied when we had mustered all this courage and vulnerability it never made me i never got fear from it and and i’m excited for my next partnership because i know that um yeah i could already feel it and then the last one is i need to take a little break i’m going

(1:16:09) to come back to you in 30 minutes i think it’s so important that you say in 30 minutes because otherwise it can it can come off as such a egoic you’re being punished but the fact that you say i’m going to come back to you in 30 minutes it gives them the idea of okay i have 30 minutes to cool myself down too and because we’re both waves and we’re thinking of it from a wave perspective when you’re in that relationship not choosing like an island yeah well you think the island that you’re with you

(1:16:39) know which i know we’ve had a lot of experience there is saying i’m taking off and i’m not going to deal with this now or probably ever so at least worse yeah if they made a commitment i’ll come back in 30 minutes that would be huge for them oh my god it would i take all my anxiety away yeah i’d feel so glad to and proud to be with him just because too so that’s a boundary in itself setting that time i do think it’s important to say in 30 minutes and not even if you’re setting a

(1:17:03) time limit that you don’t say tomorrow like even that is like that would drive me at the wall so those are the five things that you can say during conflict so i also wanted to just bring up that she also after conflict after things have been solved she brought up apologies and i i just wanted to use a few examples so she said an apology is not i’m sorry you feel that way it’s i’m so sorry i hurt you because it’s something we often say i’m so sorry you feel that way that’s not validating them as much as i’m so sorry

(1:17:33) i hurt you you’re taking anyone you’ve heard what you know their hurt was and you you’re admitting to that that you were a part of it and then an apology is not that was not my intention and apology is i will be more mindful of this in the future oh that’s good crystals almost to a point where i’m like are you just reading this out i say it a lot argument but that’s because my wave self is not the island thing again i’ve been saying it i will be more mindful of this in the future but i mean it and

(1:18:04) then an apology is not maybe you’re upset because this is one of your triggers oh that would trigger me wait maybe you’re upset because this is one of my what is it one of your triggers one of your triggers oh that would trigger me yeah an apology is i know you were sensitive about this and i screwed up it’s the one it almost comes off at first i know you’re like you butter it up at the end so you’re like i know this is something you’re sensitive about like it’s all your fault you know but then you’re like

(1:18:33) no but i think that they’re being sensitive to your needs when they say that i know that you’re sensitive about this and i screwed up yeah when they say that i screwed up part you’re like okay wait you’re like wait i hate you wait i love you yeah confused and then the last one an apology is not you are making a big deal out of nothing an apology is i’m sorry can you help me understand why this hurts that’s good yeah she’s good you don’t even have to say that i’m sorry part first just wanting to

(1:19:00) understand why it hurts is the you know like i don’t even like hearing i’m sorry i don’t understand why this hurts you know like that almost pisses me off because you i feel like women we hear that so much i’m sorry and then no change happens nothing it doesn’t piss me off but it doesn’t do much for me i’ll say that but the other side nothing yeah [Laughter] all right so try those out sorry for a couple of goofballs but it gets late on these podcast recordings that we get delirious i’m in a

(1:19:30) partnership and and we are in a fight i’m definitely gonna ask the old hands and see what oh for sure yeah i gotta use that i gotta use it give it to me one more time uh let’s please wait yeah let’s please take the time out and just hold hands for a few moments no it’s okay we’re not talking now it’s not talking just hold hands because the the power of touch yeah right no the power of allowing yourself to connect again it’s intimate be in each other’s presence without speaking where you can both calm down

(1:19:59) think about how great that is i love it yeah all right so what’s yours uh you know what i’m delirious because i woke up at like i text you earlier at the before you know there was before dawn and i had this crazy dream which i’m not going to get into now because it’ll take a whole podcast but man it took me four hours jade to journal it i dreamed for four hours so like from 4 a.m to 8 a.

(1:20:30) m or something crazy ridiculous it’s a serious one okay i woke up to a snake at my door and that’s a whole another store let’s get into that sometime too that isn’t it one day all right all right so my uh magic trick is it actually comes from dr lauren foggle mercy on instagram and she says i love her yes she says it’s okay to let the phone call go to voicemail and call back later and it’s okay to turn your cell on do not disturb it’s okay to not respond to every text message immediately it’s okay to check

(1:21:08) emails less frequently and it’s okay to take a break from social media so these are all you know in line with what we’re talking about with sylvie today regarding boundaries so you can set your own boundaries and you don’t have to have i did some of these things today you did i turned on my do not disturb on my text how to feel scary at first they started facebook messaging me oh god there got to be a better system no yeah i mean these all are amazing the trouble with us i think is that so much of our line of work

(1:21:48) is on social media and on our phones and yeah so it there’s this sense of urgency stays because it’s how we pay our bills so um and just i think being in a line of work that um you you know i want to call like an independent contractor someone who has to basically go where the money is when it’s there like do it now or it won’t be their later type of thing it’s not like a nine to five or a salary to position or something like this so yes it does already put you know an extra anxiety on you as to make sure

(1:22:22) you’re available now it’s you know what’s the the definition of luck is the intersection of opportunity and um preparedness right so that’s kind of the idea nobody’s getting lucky in this entertainment industry it’s just a matter of being prepared and ready for that opportunity when it shows up so um i get it yeah we are anxious about answering calls and emails and text messages and i don’t like it yeah but i think that there is a way to um to to schedule it into your day like even chris last night was telling me hey

(1:22:56) i think i’m going to start scheduling like whatever 15-minute block yeah day where i just get to like do whatever i want on social media and then the alarm goes off so i got that done like okay that piece is done and then i can go on yeah i have to do i used to tell myself i could only be on doesn’t mean i’m gonna spend the whole hour but i can only be on from 10 to 11 a.m and like four to five p.

(1:23:18) m those were my two hours that i could be on social that’s when i got my business post done that’s when i checked my favorite accounts whatever i was not allowed on the rest of the day and i did that i did it for like a whole year and and it worked it was very nice very nice yeah um i i find myself just going there i’m like why am i in here exactly and i heard eric godsey actually the other day say to move the app uh like every three days because in about three days you get the muscle memory back so move it again you know you don’t even

(1:23:49) have to move it far but it just every time you’re searching for it you remind yourself why am i going to this app i don’t need to go here because it’s all about that and i asked myself that today that’s good i am going to start doing that yeah all right magic lovers thank you so much for tuning in and taking this journey with us if this episode held some magic for you please share it with your friends and family this would mean so much to us and don’t forget to join us on our instagram page at the magic hour

(1:24:12) and let us know what your favorite episodes have been so far we appreciate all your feedback and want to know what is lighting you up yes yes yes and i want to remind you guys about the little contest we’re doing with our reviews so all you have to do is write a review for us on your podcast app take a snapshot of that review right before you submit it or after you submit it and post it on your instagram tagging us at the magic hour spelled m-a-j-i-c so that we can see it and if we pick you you will get a hundred dollar amazon

(1:24:47) gift card how fantastic yeah and we release a new episode every monday guys so you can catch us again next week or go listen to some of our past episodes in our podcast library right now we’ll meet you there until then be alive bye big thank you to at rayton royal for our enter jam and to john aaron garza from real in motion productions for producing the show stay magical friends um before we get started well we still got to do the intro oh yeah but i also want to just say did i say that right about the contest because it wasn’t on here so i

(1:25:21) just try to wing it but was that right they just snap snapshot it post it on instagram tag us right yeah yeah you put it right okay all right so john again don’t send me that previous one because it just ends up being more notes for both of us i did a good read on her bio though yeah we really just need these first three paragraphs ready yeah greetings magic mobbers welcome boys and babes it’s that time again it’s the magic hour a place where we navigate through life’s peaks and valleys with all the vulnerability and shamelessness

(1:26:04) we can muster with the help of world-class guests from all walks of life we uncover new truths and valuable tools for manifesting our highest potential i’m your host mercedes terrell along with my partner in shine jade bryce hey you guys i am genuinely so excited to talk to our guests today because we’re going to be diving into the topic of boundaries something which is largely part of my journey currently and i’m realizing how critically i’ve been neglecting putting boundaries into place in my own life

(1:26:34) um particularly you know in with my family and i am so excited to pick her brain on that yeah um i’m excited too i’m really still trying to define what boundaries are and how to define my own and and then of course how to communicate them to my partner and to my friends and family members and i feel like i’m just kind of on the beginning of this journey so i’m glad to be getting the basics today um so yeah got a lot to ask our guest today so let’s get her on yes all right that should be good we’re like

(1:27:10) we used to be like should we do one more just be safe i know