(00:00) ecamm is now recording we set the camera at a higher capture so we’ll see if that works i have no [ __ ] idea oh good i would love to get good video from this i know hopefully that’ll work oh yeah i was thinking too oh real quick before we get to the point where we’re gonna have tom on um when we’re doing when we actually get the guest like on the phone you know how i mean i guess he’s already tested right so it’s not going to take a minute this time but chris and stuart were saying like we should

(00:39) take any time that we have or even just take a moment during the conversation or whatever to grab like a selfie of um ourselves recording if possible i always take one but that no less doesn’t know that i’m doing it but you use it for social um i have before on my story yeah i don’t know anyway i was thinking i was i am in such a messy room though i don’t know if i’ll do it but um because i want to grab like a capture of whatever we’re doing and be able to say hey okay we were recording with who is so

(01:15) and so okay hello my loves but we have a great show for you guys today yes welcome to the magic hour boys and babes i’m mercedes terrell and with me my majestic partner and shine jade bryce you already know hi i’m just so stoked for this episode because we’re gonna have on one of my very best friends he’s also my mentor and he’s walked me through some really dark times and i’ve also shared some really happy times with him he’s such a bright light and i just know that everyone that’s gonna hear this is

(01:55) truly gonna benefit for sure i can’t wait either and after the interview we’ll also be answering some questions from the magic mob um actually maybe we’ll get him to answer those with us we’ll see and right before leaving you with you leaving you guys with a magic trick to use this week yeah just do that again i can’t wait either this is going to be awesome um and after the interview we’ll be answering some ques no [ __ ] [ __ ] today’s [ __ ] just say that we’re gonna just leave that part

(02:30) out no i’m just not say after okay i can’t wait either this is gonna be so awesome we will also be answering some questions from the magic mob as always right before leaving you guys with a magic trick to use this week so jade tell us a little bit about your bff tom yeah um i don’t even know where to begin really he more than anyone else that i know raises the bar for how we all should be living although i know if you heard me say that he would point out that i shouldn’t be shooting all over everyone

(03:09) but i met him very briefly about 10 years ago at the white house we were like protesting and rallying to get joseph coney who was the leader of the lra arrested on the count of war crimes because he kidnapped thousands of children and forced them to do god-awful things as child soldiers so i’m sure you know that’s a well-known thing at this point but at the time no one had heard of it so we were there trying to get it heard and so i met him there super briefly years later i ended up on his patio in malibu

(03:40) um he had a a little trailer right on the beach and right right when we begin to conversate i just we really connected and i immediately thought i must have spent another lifetime with this person like he must have been a family member he must have been something and i also and we still laugh about this grabbed the notepad and started writing down things that he was saying because i just wanted to make sure that i remembered them because he has that effect on you his words are so light and life-giving that you just

(04:15) you take note you want to take note so um me doing this made him feel that i hunger for truth and he also felt that i was immediately immediately his family or that you know i um had another lifetime with him as well so we spent the next you know we spent the next thanksgivings and easters and new year’s together and we you know he just became my partner in a lot of things and the rest became history that’s so cool i love that story so for real for maybe just real quick for anyone listening who doesn’t

(04:50) know who tom shadyac is let me just catch you up to speed um i’ll list off a few of his most known works all movies and books documentaries which have had an incredible influence on my life from when i was a young kid adam said something’s wrong with your um i know sucks and we need to call tom josh just asked if we were ready so you want to check your settings he said something’s not right with your settings okay let me take a look let’s see court so look at your settings real quick is it reading or perfect i already

(05:29) looked no read what they are core audio built in input um no it’s not it’s not core audio it’s yeti stereo microphone right after core audio that’s why hey we’re working on it now yeah we’re working on it right now okay what yours is core audio yeti stereo microphone then it says two stereo and then built-in output yeah okay okay and then let me just make sure the skype has it all right darn it’s no biggie we can do it we’re gonna do it after i know i just prefer like the energy difference being noticeable but maybe

(06:16) you can just pick up that last paragraph instead well i think the whole thing is wrong he said oh [ __ ] that’s right damn yeti stereo on your skype do you have you have a yeti stereo microphone yep all right that’s on the microphone and the speakers is built-in output [Music] okay all right again i’m gonna look for uh his assistant because i think they’re like they’ve been sitting there for a little while i gotta shut down so you we need to restart audacity i think so that it’s a new file

(06:59) or what are you know keepers running i think no you can just leave yours it’ll just the sound will go oh you know what i mean i think yours you can keep going but he’s no because he prefers it when it’s the same time okay well just in case yours is good keep it saved though you know what i mean in case there’s something in there he needs to pick up from does that make sense oh god this sucks my audacity is acting weird [Music] it’s probably because chris and i were [ __ ] with this trying to restart our

(07:42) ecam today okay i am reporting always the first thing i check because um hold on i’m just going to do a sound test for adam just so i can send it make sure we got it right adam this is my voice all right i’m gonna hit record again on my new one and then i’m gonna add chris to the call okay i gotta send this to adam first though right well i’m gonna add them to the call so that we can at least because they asked me like 10 minutes ago if we were ready he’s pretty prompt good thing we check

(08:49) i know i don’t need to be ready like right away to check just in case because had we started recording with the guests that would have been really annoying okay i just sent that to him so will you uh let him know i might restart my audacity while doing that oh well i shouldn’t have hit record then if you’re restarting now well no i have i had to send adam a new test i know but why are you restarting it now i gotta restart this what do you mean i always just do the same from the test oh i can do that it doesn’t matter but no

(09:19) okay just that way we’re on the same time because when we have different time things he gets fresh he said it’s harder to edit after the test you have to stop it in order to send it yeah but i just meant don’t close it out okay i’m going it’s recording okay uh and ecam is still recording okay cool all right i’m calling him [Music] it looks like my children are asleep he said good to go okay are you are you gonna intro tom while he’s on yeah okay and you took out the pieces we talked about on that intro right

(10:00) so yeah so uh i i try to call him let me see what he says because i tried colony didn’t answer so so without further ado let me introduce one of my very best friends a man who so many of us call a healer i i changed that because we said comedies twice because we since we changed it we didn’t catch that we said comedy twice who has freed slaves all over the world who constantly teaches us that love trumps fear who makes every person around him feel seen and loved he wrote and directed the world’s favorite comedies

(10:40) his documentary i am and his book life’s operating manual shakes you awake you truly cannot stay the same once you encounter his energy tom shadyac yay [Music] um did you reply i don’t know because i said i said click video and he said one sec but he was asking me to call i think he i think his assistant needs to get going and so he wants to like make sure he’s set up jade hi hi hey so if you click video we’ll be able to see you i wish i i always want to make the guest big i know no make the guess hey what’s

(11:34) up hey so happy now i i otherwise i’m staring at mercedes-benz we’re always we’re always on here yeah there we are we’re still i’m about i’m plugging i’m plugging in tom’s headphones and i’m about to hit record on this okay awesome how do i let’s see i don’t think you can make it i just did i double clicked on him that makes him the bigger one yeah i double clicked on him and it made us small and then i just dragged us to the right you always say that doesn’t work for me

(12:10) though i know it doesn’t always you guys look very nice i’m doing this without makeup so i’ll mess around i think i know everything to do so i’ll be right back give me one second okay um i like his little thing in the background yeah okay i can’t um get well whatever mine’s at the bottom of the screen but i could see him it just will be a small one but when it goes on the ecam it captures all three of us the same yeah i just i catch myself looking at you instead of the guest if you’re new it

(12:43) bothers me too but even if i’m big i catch myself looking at me and said you know but the thing is it’s not like it matters to the viewer they don’t see the i know it’s just personally yeah yeah i feel you what’s up freaks hi hi cold in my house let me see how to do this where are you look at us all professional i know what’s up interviewers where are you uh i am in memphis hold on oh cool yeah i just flew in last night so if i get a little wonky that’ll be my excuse i’m a mother of two toddlers

(13:27) there we go there we go as you can see i’m watching them right now from the monitors that you’re watching what the babies are on my monitor recording with tom yeah i know freaks oh my god we just um we didn’t take a picture of us we did um halloween uh trick-or-treating and then i didn’t want to be like the mom that just takes it away so i told them there’s a halloween health fairy that comes and refills their bag with good stuff and i like really filled it up though with really good stuff um oh

(13:59) my god but it has helped so much with bedtime because i’m like if you don’t go to sleep you’re not going to eat some of that in the morning but it’s all good stuff it’s like sweetened with stevia and uh coconut sugar and you’re like you know worst vegan and worst best mama ever yeah they were more excited about the halloween health fairy than they were about the trick-or-treating so i did nothing healthy for my neighborhood kids i poisoned them oh tom you’re the best neighbor i i gave them a hug but i did

(14:26) poison them with children i miss your watermelon seed spitting and um mercedes you’re recording right yeah we’re gonna paint hi mercedes i don’t know i’m joining right i finally get to meet you i know tommy the same i feel like i already know you because of all the stories and fun things i’ve heard from jade tom are you recording for sure me yeah he’s like i hope so man josh josh hit record right like you can see i can move you guys to make sure that if you look at that audacity it’s

(14:57) moving okay yeah yeah i’m good okay okay so i’ll introduce you um because i don’t want you to get too tired um and if i feel like i don’t even have to tell you what we tell all the other guests but we just invite you to be as vulnerable and open as possible and if you choose that you wish you hadn’t said something we can always edit it out okay awesome great great all right so without further edit out the part where i said i was poisoning my neighbor so i’m only kidding that’ll go to the bloopers yeah

(15:33) so without further ado let me introduce one of my very best friends a man who so many of us call a healer who has freed slaves all over the world who constantly teaches us that love trumps fear who makes every person around him feel seen and loved he wrote and directed the world’s favorite comedies his documentary i am and his book life’s operating manual shakes you awake you truly cannot stay the same once you encounter his energy tom shadyac yay i had a hard time not crying wow i was so first of all honored and

(16:16) obviously moved by what you said and uh i’m just happy to be here you guys i’ve been a fan of your show since you started so you’re like our mascot every episode no she sent me jada sent me every episode and i found find you guys vulnerable which is so important human and uh and beautiful so i’m happy to be here thank you tom it’s been a wild little ride getting to this point but seriously thank you so much for all the help you’ve given us you’ve you’ve listened to the episodes that haven’t

(16:49) made it you know so you know all the really bad ones that we’ve tried to work through at this point but also i just want to say hi tom it’s good to finally meet you see your face and all that even if it’s just on skype and i’m so glad you’re here doing this with us yeah we’ve been third partying this for a while through jade so it’s really nice to meet you as well so what do you guys want to talk about i’m excited yeah so um tom our discussion today these are the things that we talk about

(17:18) without being recorded so i’m so excited to share this conversation with our listeners um something that really stands out about you is that you truly make people feel seen like when we go out to eat you actually get to know the waiter or the waitress and not just in a small talk sort of way and when we go to the grocery store you cause the cashier to light up like you ask people how they’re doing and you joyfully wait for the answer and i’ve seen you during dark times and you still choose to radiate

(17:46) this and one of my favorite stories is how i used to go see you every monday night at pepperdine to when you would teach and i remember checking in one time with the security guard and saying that i was here to see tom shadiak and he said oh tom oh man he’s one of my best friends and then later that night i told you and you kind of chuckled and said you had never seen him outside of the security check gate and so it just made me like it was crazy to me that someone who only sees you at a security check gate considered

(18:15) you one of their best friends because that’s how you treat everyone and most people would just give their name and you know pass on through and later that night i laughed because it occurred to me that everyone calls my best friend their best friend and it made me so thankful for you and you know you make the whole world feel that way and you’re one of my few friends that constantly asked me how is your heart and that’s what people truly want and what people truly need and without this their life can get dark

(18:43) so what i’m getting at is this is what’s missing in the world how do you stay in this state well if only i was as good as you described me um i like that guy well first of all jade uh honoring you you bring that out in me so i think you are also seeing a part of yourself reflected in me you want that in the world you want uh to bring light you want to leave a room happier than when you found it mercedes i’m sure you’re the same way now look honestly i don’t always meet that goal i fly a lot that’s enough

(19:20) but uh there’s a there’s a mystic mystical truth that i try to live my life by which is how would you see the world if everything was god in disguise so if every person who came in front of you was god whether you believe in a you know the idea of god the traditional idea or just the idea of an energy a creative energy how would you behave if everything in front of you was god right showing you a part of yourself so if you meet somebody who’s stubborn somebody who’s angry and you become angry well

(19:51) that angers in you so it’s an opportunity and then that person the angry person feels a mask away and says hey i’m god i was this is just an opportunity right so that’s how i i do my best to to walk to to lead my life is to treat everyone as if it is god in drag so i feel like the first part of my question was going to be you know noting that like jade said you give almost everything of yourself to whoever’s in front of you um you answered pretty much how you do that by treating them essentially like

(20:27) they’re you’re seeing the divine in them the same divine that lives in you right how do you keep yourself from feeling depleted because you’re doing that all the time and also who gives you what you’re giving to others yeah let me take the first part of the question and you can ask the second part again because i’ll forget it um so the first part again was how do i do it keep it from being depleted yeah um that’s a really strong question and an important question um the commandment love your neighbor as

(21:02) you love yourself so there’s two parts to that love your neighbor which is what i hope i’m doing when i greet somebody with kindness and openness and seeing them but as you love yourself is an important part that i often ignored when i was young and i would come home exhausted i gave so much of myself etc but i didn’t give to myself you’ve got to always honor what you need so that you can recharge and then reintegrate into the world re-engage um so now i i just you know when i feel depleted and tired that’s on me i’ve got

(21:37) to take care of myself a little better you know i’ll i’ll read i’ll do my forms of meditation i’ll i’ll walk in the mountains i’ll bike i’ll do whatever it is that re charges me that reconnects me and re-energizes me and then i can reflect that back that’s true tom i actually can’t even um i can’t do a podcast episode without a really strong meditation right before it because it’s like you you really can’t pour out what’s not inside yeah that’s a good point

(22:07) i think i need it good go ahead no mercedes go please i was just going to say that i think i need to take that more to heart because i’m someone who’s always burned the candle at both ends and i find myself completely depleted and just have to like my body will get sick literally i’ll have to just stop what i’m doing because my body’s like well if you’re not gonna take it you know you’re not consciously to take the break we’re going to make you essentially yeah your symptoms are a blessing

(22:29) yeah save an end for yourself don’t burn maybe burn it burn at an end and then and then you know give yourself but you know give yourself what you need yeah you know you are also the divine energy walking around in disguise right right and so every instinct you have is there for a reason oh my gosh i need to rest there you go oh my gosh i would so love to just have a coffee right now and think about nothing it’s not selfish as selfish as a small s when you only think about you selfish with the large s is when we think about

(23:03) the larger self that connects all of us and you’ve got to serve your highest self as well your physical self your emotional self your spiritual self to serve the larger self so the other part of that question was who gives you what you’re giving others you guys maybe it’s a who or what you used to say i think mary oliver or maya angelou i remember you would give to me yeah they were the ones that like poured into you of course i i can sit here and name a thousand you know mystic saints and sages but i got two saints sitting

(23:37) in front of me and it’s kind of back to the same question jade that you ask if everything in front of you is god in drag then that recognition that namaste if you will isn’t that what namaste means i see the god in you recognizing that re-energizes as well right it’s all sort of god in the field of space and time in play again i don’t say god in a religious sense i don’t want to turn anyone off may not even have ever used that word or heard that word if you believe giving away my magic trick for the show

(24:09) well if you believe in life or love uh or kindness it’s the same thing i just use a different word there’s an energy that we’re all a part of that sustains everything that did somehow create and put all this into motion and i want to serve that energy and so that energy is always opposite you or with you and and in front of you and it’s here right now with you guys so you guys are energizing me you are allowing me to be someone as maya angelou would say by honoring me to be on your show i love

(24:39) that tom um so what you’re doing right now you speak beauty when you see it and my love language is words of affirmation as you know so maybe that’s one of the reasons i feel so cared for by you is because you always when you look at me you see who i want to be and you tell me that that’s already who i am um and you do that for everyone that you encounter so uh have you been able to do this for yourself no i’m not fully certainly not fully it’s much easier because that requires vulnerability right that requires me to

(25:16) um embrace all my imperfections all my scarring um and i’m getting better at it but i would much rather talk about you so you want to talk about you yeah really quickly so again that’s part of embracing i don’t one thing i have lost in large part is judgment and i think it’s a big freeing thing i don’t judge myself for not being that giving to myself if you will i don’t judge myself i assess myself i say okay this is where i’m at how’s that how’s that working out for me yeah it’s kind of depleting me or i’m

(25:55) really hard on myself and i i don’t walk with enough as much joy as i hope to walk with so i can then make a change but judgment is ah you suck you’re less than you’re not good enough and again it’s an old mystic saying i’ve read just a few minutes ago i believe it’s from roomie who said where you are right now god circled on a map just for you yes i love that yeah so you’re in a perfect place even if you’re in a stuck place it’s a perfect place for now because things need to be

(26:25) re-aligned they they need to be you know reoriented and it takes a moment so you’re stuck so there’s there’s decency and goodness to the stuckness so what would you say what are you longing for what are you still longing for oh boy what am i still longing for um yeah well we had that we we had this meeting the other day um at our company and everyone got a chance to say what superpower would they want one of you guys can answer that too what superpower would you well one of the coolest was travel wouldn’t it be cool

(27:00) if you could just so i could just be in the room with you guys like teleportation yeah yeah i think that’s mine yeah i might want that they’re all kinds of superpowers my superpower would be to see as god sees so um and i’m certainly not there yet so i do i i don’t it’s not like a seeking anymore because seeking is like oh i’m missing something it’s just an awareness that i want to be more and more and more open to um yeah and and the other thing is friendships are really important to me

(27:32) but i travel so much i don’t have as much time and it’s life is about relationships and yeah you know i don’t i don’t have as many intimate relationships as i’d like to have i haven’t been able to be consistent in friendships that’s what you long for so that’s our um our topic next week with jamie torkowski is the importance of community oh man so important yeah and intimacy which i’ve told you jade many times into me dc yeah right and just you know where you’re known where you where you come home to a

(28:06) partner and they know you they recognize you right you they just i know you and so you just feel like that’s ellen one of my favorite quotes by ellen she said a poor show when she gave her her birthday present was it’s wonderful to be loved it’s or it’s it’s nice to be loved it’s wonderful to be understood like truly known you know yeah yeah and so when you say seeing as god sees you i’m imagining that’s just seeing without separation essentially just the oneness yeah that’s the that that that would be

(28:39) certainly um but separation from anything like if i want an outcome like i’m working on a movie right now i really want it to be good um but seeing as god sees is just just trust keep writing keep working if it sucks it’s going to play some role because all things work together for good um and so just trust and i you know too often see see and focus on the outcome or um yeah but again that’s separating you know separation is you are different you know you’re different obviously we’re in space and time here but we all sort of

(29:12) come from the same rooting same energy with different slices of that energy different colors of that rainbow um but yeah you could see as god sees man i think you’d be walking around with a shitty grin on your face you know so the separation you know a lot of us are hurting simply with a question in our hearts how did we get here as a country you know the stories of human trafficking of the crime on black people of the lack of compassion in our president it sometimes keeps me up at night and at the drop of a hat

(29:44) brings me to tears and you know we’re just currently living in such a polarizing world and i um something that i love to think about is mr rogers said that when he was a kid when he saw sad things on the news his mother would say look for the light workers and i do believe that all of what’s happening in our country right now is cracking us open i strongly believe that but it’s still so hard to see people hurting like this this unjust pain and to not feel the chaos and to not feel the depression and

(30:14) i still i know when i dance for joy with my kids in the living room that i’m sending out that energy and i know that when i do meta meditation but still sometimes it’s hard to even do that because the darkness can be so consuming and you know the stories of what happened with the kids when they were literally ripped from their parents hands while seeking asylum and just they’re never going to be the same you know and it it literally just it makes my chest hurt and it brings me to tears and i know we’ve

(30:42) talked about this before when i got back from vietnam how it just doesn’t seem like an even trade um i can’t find the light there and so i just wanted to get your thoughts on that and how do you still have hope given all that well first of all i i want to say you are absolutely heard and all your feelings uh i respect um feel them everything you say is worthy of feeling that hurt that pain that suffering i never discourage anyone from feeling i want to go back to something we said earlier the person who said the most

(31:19) hateful thing the most divisive thing is god in his or her myriad of disguises the person who separated the kid is god in his or her myriad of disguises wait a second how is that possible that’s the opposite that’s pulling people apart who knows what that kid will grow up to be right who knows how that kid will alchemize the pain of his separation into becoming a unifier and a leader in the world look at your heart broken open right i wrote you this the other night jade right the hurting heart is the is the

(31:50) open heart right it’s the healing heart so i see everything is necessary doesn’t mean you have to root for it i certainly don’t root for so many things that are happening right now i want a world where we love each other and seashell i want a world without walls i don’t want border walls you know nature doesn’t have walls the rain rains it doesn’t respect walls the sunshine the wind doesn’t respect walls right so i want that world i will work and give my life for that world but it

(32:19) doesn’t mean i have to judge the people who are not in that world yet they are opportunities they are pushing us remember the word passion you’re passionate about justice passion comes from the word petite pain right it takes a prickling right a sting for us to feel the pain to move us forward you know i’m i’m guessing you were for the democrat candidate for president hillary clinton look at it this way if hillary had won it’s very likely that you guys may never have started this podcast you might have been

(32:52) you might not have been moved in your hearts to say dog on it we want to put light into the world right now we’re feeling too much darkness so what do you say to the darkness you say to the darkness thank you yeah that’s a tough one because it has to come without judgment thank you darkness because you pushed me into more light yeah i think something you probably heard us say a bunch of times tom since you’ve listened to more shows than anyone at this point of ours um is we talk about contrast sometimes being

(33:24) the almost the essence of life like needing the darkness in order to see the light or vice versa and some the mantra i’ve been living by the last few months is seek the pain for positive gain to what you’re saying i mean basically you have to go into the pain and experience it and go through all those emotions and move through it in order to get to whatever is on the other side and without that pain you would have never gotten to that next place because it’s just impossible to to have comfort without discomfort

(33:54) you are a mystic that is a mystical saying to seek the pain is a that’s what i’m doing in memphis i needed something to reawaken myself as a human being and an artist i was in comfort for too long and so you know while we sit on the cushion of advantage we fall asleep and i didn’t want to fall asleep so i sought something that would challenge me and it’s been really difficult and i’ve grown immeasurably from it so wow congratulations as mary oliver would say when she hears a truth like that

(34:30) i also like that you said thank you for the darkness it reminded me i hope i don’t butcher this story or her name but um in the concentration camps cory tenenboom is how you say her name are you familiar not familiar okay well she i guess was in one area that had a ton shoes with her sister had a ton of rats and fleas and um like maggots which is a disgusting area well she survived the concentration camps and um years later she saw one of the soldiers and uh he re she recognized him told him that she forgave him they

(35:09) started to talk and he asked what i guess bunk she was in or what area and she told him and he goes oh yeah um you all were one of the few women that weren’t constantly raped because we never wanted to go over there because of the the conditions you know the fleas and and um the major part that i left out is that she was always so miserable because of the conditions but her sister always said no thank god for the fleas thank god for the rats and she was like how could you thank god for this and then to find out later so

(35:37) i’ve always enjoyed that story yeah remember yin and yang you know the circle and there they go together so the yang you’re talking about that that’s causing so much pain again mercedes you said it earlier don’t don’t see the separation right what is it about that yang to my yin that i need to learn open up to what is it revealing about myself right if you see as god sees well if if if there is an energy that created all this it must know what it’s doing it’s certainly keeping my body functioning right now

(36:08) it’s keeping the stars in alignment it’s keeping us you know like like the blood urging and pushing in the veins and the oxygen you know moving through the body etc it must know what it’s doing it must know what it’s doing right only in the darkest nights can you see the stars and so so you know all these dark points of our history where there have been you know hate crimes against people of color it out of them we always see as we look back all this light pouring out right all this light so it’s coming it’s coming we’re pushing

(36:42) and urging and just like yeah just like the body when it heals it has to heat up you know it has to push out things that are not functioning helping the body function and that’s what we’re doing we’re pushing things out so we can evolve something else about the separation that um i think of that has to do with you um is just remembering that everyone is just wanting to be happy like everyone that’s all anyone really wants at the root of everything and um one of the first times we hung out on thanksgiving we went and

(37:12) served the homeless for thanksgiving day and the previous day and then after that we went to um a well-known actress’s house that had other actors and actresses there people had grown up watching and the common theme among people who were literally homeless and eating thanksgiving dinner in a shelter and then people in a mansion in malibu was that you could see that they were all just craving happiness even though it was like so you would think it would be so separate amen the desire was the same this would be my this would be my

(37:44) admonition for everybody that is seeing an another side like there’s a red america a blue america conservative america um a liberal america and some would say a sane american a crazy america and those can switch red or blue i would say go out and make the case for the other side you must make the case for the other side what is it that they’re afraid of what is it that they that they’re longing for that you asked me earlier uh mercedes what are you what are they longing for and you’ll meet them right

(38:18) there right there’s a field uh yeah out beyond ideas of right doing and wrongdoing there’s a field i’ll meet you i’m gonna meet you there yeah right i’ll meet you there so we have to meet each other there and we can’t do it by saying you’re wrong yeah right here’s a here’s the the problem when somebody says you’re wrong we judge we immediately judge them so somebody was wrong for separating a parent from a kid right now please don’t get me wrong quote unquote i don’t want you to think that my heart

(38:48) didn’t break and i wouldn’t want to run and give my life to see that never happen again but the second i say you’re an a-hole um you’re and i start labeling definition being the death of discovery i’ve built a wall between that person and me yeah so i would add i would ask everybody to run out and make the case for the other side and mean it i think that’s a great practice idea of how to find that inner that common ground i think with this podcast as you know a lot of what we’re hoping one of our goals yeah is to

(39:24) find those hard places as we always you know use the term cognitive dissonances and and bring them up you know and and sit with it and say okay well let’s make a case for both sides let’s hear whoever we’re interviewing side of what their story is and and let our listeners decide for themselves what their liquid truth is you know what they’re going to move forward with and how it’s going to evolve whatever part of their life they allow it to by being what’s why i’ve had an easy time listening to your podcast

(39:52) because you come from places of vulnerability that i can relate to difficult relationships you know you guys are both um you know uh models so you’ve experienced i’m sure a lot of you know the dark side of male you know energy um and you come from a place of openness and and and again imperfection so i go oh i know her she’s just like me we’re still trying to you know walk that’s our goal to make people feel less alone because they’re like yeah they’re like me yeah i said don’t feel like i always

(40:28) tell jade this like it’s hard to hear you know things that float everything is everything is peaceful yeah no no it’s not really like not all the time it’s not always peaceful right there’s yang to the yin right like no i can i can take it in a peaceful way but it’s still there’s there’s tough stuff and i like that you guys you are not afraid to walk into that so a little bit of a turn but not much what’s something you’re thankful for and what’s something that scares you tom

(40:59) that i’m not thankful for enough things [Laughter] what scares me um i mean to be honest it’s probably fully being seen you know like for all the reason that i i can go on and on about the beauty of imperfections is because i’m still um discovering my own and embracing my own so i think really being seen um you know um i lead a very monastic existence like you know people always say to me oh like jd says like oh my god you’re so busy you’re like you know you know they see me in a certain way but i have a

(41:37) tremendous amount of aloneness in my life you know um the the the the journey i you know i do believe that i’m i’m not calling myself a mystic but i’m certainly moved by the mystics journey always evolved intense solitude and and i have that very um deeply in my life and it’s um it’s scary to ever let someone into that idea because i’m always the guy making a joke or as jade said you know offering a perspective that might help uplift someone um but i’m not often seen for oh you hurt too you’re hurting too i think this

(42:17) surprises you jay like i remember you said not too long ago something about that um but anyway yeah so so part was it what scares me and what was the other part was wait what are you doing what are you thankful for i mean you’ve listed a lot of things already i feel like yeah yeah you can go into it more i’m thankful for you guys um you know i’m thankful for um whatever understanding has come to me that allows me to walk into very very chaotic situations with a sense of peace and that brings with it a sense of power

(42:56) i i’m just not upset by what’s happening in the country in the sense that it i lose my trust for what i know um i i i i i yeah so i’m thankful for that that um that you know no despair of ours as thomas merton said can alter the reality of things we’re going through quite a despair but there’s a reality with a capital r that i think i’ve been blessed to be able to access um from time to time i love that um yeah i think that’s a lot of people’s fear is um to to be seen um it takes a lot of vulnerability and

(43:48) i mean i don’t know how many people truly feel seen i mean really realize that they’re not being seen you know a lot of people think that they are but they they may not realize that until they hear something like this and then they’re like oh am i truly seen for who i am so i like that they’re you know most authentic stuff too i think we you know especially us in our jobs as models we’ve been out here in the limelight and and tom of course you’ve worked with on every big movie you can list them all um

(44:19) all those circumstances you’re being seen essentially that might be what most people think of when you say being seen but who you really are like i always think of myself who am i when i lay on my deathbed you know what what is that moment going to bring me what kind of clarity is it going to suddenly come upon me and go wait nobody saw me for this you know like what’s the thing i want to pass across in that moment if it was tomorrow or five minutes from now or whatever it is um that i can do my best to pass now while i still

(44:50) have the chance again a mystical idea my mystical friend the idea that the moment of death is the moment that can coalesce your whole life into a into a very clear path what is it that i want when i hit my death do i want longing so that what is it that i long for i let me let me go after that or write that or you know express that um and right now too i mean exactly i was gonna say that’s the next thing to live that moment now i think the hard part in that though is it’s as easy as it is for us to say that we’re sitting in you know

(45:32) living conditions that are where we have food on our table and we have the ability to go essentially get whatever we want or need but if you’re in a situation where it’s survival you know you’re just trying to put food on your plate for for the evening or you’re just trying to make enough money to scratch by on rent or whatever it is you don’t necessarily get the chance to have that thought even to go to those places and just that’s where i see a lot of i feel it’s unfair well yeah i don’t know about uh you know

(46:02) again unfair i i i i feel the in injustice um but at the same time out of those circumstances can come some of our most powerful poets and leaders and artists um you’re right it is a bit of a luxury to contemplate because that means i have enough food in my belly to where i’m satisfied enough to be able to contemplate however i do think that poverty of resources doesn’t necessarily have to mean a poverty of spirit or experience or ability to look at the sunrise and see the beauty of of a creative hand behind it um

(46:45) so um yeah i do i suppose that’s true because actually as you’re saying i’m thinking of when you are around people who may not have a lot of money when you go to a country and you visit these people who are living in a shack you know on dirt floors and whatnot they’re some of the happiest people you might ever come across yeah absolutely absolutely it’s a way i don’t even like to use the word i live in a very i call it a underserved community um i don’t like to call it poor because man they’re not poor they’re they’re

(47:13) very wealthy very very very wealthy whereas some of the wealthy financially are very poor in spirit yeah um yeah and you know there’s there’s you know that every one in our culture is given this in either high school or college maslow’s hierarchy of needs which is kind of what you were saying mercedes and that you know the first need is like for food or shelter and then it moves into the spirit and into love and it’s and i don’t agree like i think that love and spirit can be at all phases again not easy when you’re

(47:48) hungry yeah um but still accessible right it’s still there are people who have starved and and and been without to the point of death that have done it seeing god as they go um so um i always think that that door is is open again some for some and and again remember everything is yin and yang right so we sit in comfort we may not be able to access quote god as easily as someone who’s had such a hard day just getting food and they take one bite and then they feel the universe in that one bite yeah true i

(48:25) um going back to the scene part i feel seen by you tom and i hope that you feel seen by me i know that with my children it’s weird because i i want to be seen for different things to different people with my children i just want to be seen i want them to see me as gentle and present and playful and sometimes that’s where the judgment comes in for me and that’s where i can take myself too seriously which isn’t playful at all you know but i can get so hard on myself there well i would i would imagine that what

(48:57) you want it may not be what’s happening your kids see you so i know you want to be all those beautiful positive things but i promise you your kids also see those things maybe a heartbreak maybe a hurting moment maybe a moment where you’re not your best self and that’s cool too because they need those things to look at and because they’re going to feel them yeah you let them see me cry yeah mommy i remember that time that you felt this and you didn’t talk about it well i’m feeling something now at school

(49:30) like it’s it just be you like like like you know that would be my encouragement it’s just just just be you um yeah you know and when you’re when things are quote negative you know just be honest about it and open it today was a hard day for x reason or my heart is broken for a while you know yeah when i do he’s still uh he always says we’ll have a good day tomorrow um he’s awesome if you name your kid’s soul he’s going please yeah yeah um so tom we’re both jesus people but we

(50:05) both um struggle with parts of the bible um can you go into that some yeah i struggle with parts of the bible too yeah i think you’re the one that for the very first person who made me feel okay about that yeah well yeah um so first of all i want to say this to anybody who is going to not see what i see or disagree with what i say i’m not right i have a perspective i i am not right i just have perspective and you can take from it what you wish and we’ll flesh the rest um first of all i think it’s an insanely

(50:43) limiting idea that god wrote one book i just think it’s insane like forgive me but i do because um he or she or it the force created everything so that means your fingerprint is on everything which means you wrote tom you wrote mercedes you wrote jade you wrote the wood that came up in this tree and eventually the artist’s hand that made it into a table like your seen everywhere your quote word is everywhere why is this podcast not a word of god i’m not saying it’s the highest word of god but why is it

(51:16) not an expression of some people imperfectly talking about their spiritual paths and so first of all very very very limiting to just think okay that’s it and then you get 10 people in a room once you here’s the thing that i had to let go of before i could be open to the beauty of the bible and the challenge of the bible which is if you look at it as the only truth of god in that sentence without any context you’re in some deep trouble man because i’m going to take you through the bible and you are in some deep deep trouble

(51:51) you’re gonna have to hate a lot murder a lot kill a lot judge a lot and i think it’s a book that talks about all of who we are which is who all of god is and it’s a story that evolves into this amazing soul jesus who came and is in my mind the fullest expression of god and so how can you have a book that says don’t judge don’t judge don’t judge so many times don’t judge don’t judge don’t judge then you take a book and you walk around and you judge because the book says and this but the book says well i’m

(52:19) judging you because i’m interpreting this book so if you’ve got 10 people in a room they’re going to give you 10 different interpretations of the bible we don’t see things as they are we see them as we are yes so my favorite quote in the bible is not your favorite quote christ is all in all that’s my favorite quote in the bible christ is all in all that means divine omnipresence right that that that energy that christ spirit is in everything right that’s my favorite quote yeah yours might be something different

(52:48) you know and so um it’s it it’s it doesn’t reflect my experience with god’s creatures and all this multi-dimensional interpretational beauty that he created he wanted us all walking around the same like you know with the same beliefs he did a pretty rotten job of creating like that and i believe that this creative force did a perfect job in creating diversity because we are how god experiences top space and time right god is limitless had to limit himself itself the energy into these finite things which is us and now god

(53:28) which infinite can’t experience anything because it’s infinite right but if it limits itself it can start experiencing right hot nose cold etc and so he he she it gets to experience it all through us so i don’t think it should be it’s supposed to be stepford this is it this is only it i see the hand written everywhere and so i see the beauty of the bible but i do not take it around and thump people over the head with it i love that i one of the parts that i struggle with most about the bible and you use a

(53:58) perfect example that still stuck with me um we both love martin spangers so much yeah yes he was in here this at some point yes um rules if you don’t know he was in eight simple rules for dating my daughter which tom produced um yes and we needed 800 simple rules for martin because he said i love you martin i love him so much so he i remember being in a room with you and him and his parents and you saying there’s nothing that this that marty could do that would make his parents send him to hell they love him so why would a loving

(54:33) god send their child to hell which is what you know parts of the bible say and you use that example and it was the first time that it really made sense to me i i may have messed that up a little bit no i listen it’s not it’s not messed up you know this is where people get upset and again i want to say people i’m not right if you feel that i’m completely missing it you know feel free to send me some love that i would understand further because all i want to know is the truth but when you when you break down the

(55:00) christian idea you know the christian i’m right and you’re wrong idea uh it doesn’t make any sense to me right so the reason that god would do that in the christian story is that because you have free will right you have free will you made the choice jade and so you didn’t come to the right idea so sorry you’re done but wait a second okay hold on but you created me right god yeah yeah but i gave you free will but yeah but you created free will you knew what free will was going to do and you knew what it was going to do to

(55:26) me that makes you kind of mean because you went ahead and created me yeah but i gave you the chance but you knew it’s like me sending my kid to camp right and i know the kid is going to get raped and beaten i knew and i still send him to camp no i don’t i think that it just when i started thinking about it logically and breaking it down i i can’t access that in my own heart maybe it’s my unlimited spirit and that person out there will one day open me but i seem to be moving in the other way that i don’t i don’t see it that way

(55:56) anymore do you think that when we we go somewhere like to heaven or hell or do you think that we just continue what are your thoughts there i have no flippant idea yeah i know that energy is scientifically can’t be created destroyed etc it has the energy has to go somewhere i know this this much i know and i can’t explain it i’ve seen my parents die in a room so they’re the only people i’ve ever seen die i’ve been in the room with them and falco tarzani who worked in mother teresa’s home for the dying experience

(56:31) yeah he watched a hundred people he held him well they died and i cannot explain to you what happens in the moment of death it’s just that my mom was no longer there in a split second everything i loved about my mother was no longer there it left there was a body there that looked like my mother but it had no meaning for me at all that thing that we love about people somehow seems to be gone at the moment of death what happens to it i don’t know does it dissolve into that oneness again maybe that means there’s no tom shadyac

(57:03) who knows itself as tom shadyac because now i’m part of the all again energy going to be recreated in some form and come back in some form i just know that that 21 grams that they talk about something happens at the moment of death and i don’t know what it is um and and we’re going to all find out but we’re going to all we’re going to all find out so well um if you find out first which i pray you don’t obviously but let us know if we’re off here yeah yeah we’ll have paul selling channel

(57:37) somebody in let him know oh wait his only channels the living i heard him there’s just yeah there’s just so much about the bible that um you know that’s sad the sad part is there’s so much of it that turns people away from god and so much of it that scares people into god because they’re afraid of hell that’s not in the bible that’s in them right so if i don’t want to be open to some kind of idea about the beauty of the divine or god or some creative force then i’m going to go to the bible and

(58:06) say well look at this this is a stupid book right but you can see you can see life and creativity and all those sparks in the bible if you take it literally it’s going to be really tough you know i do hear this a lot that people make the argument against quote the idea of god but they eliminate the reasonable ideas of god which are this energy the light at the center of every cell no scientist can tell you what keeps a cell pulsating what keeps the electron in rotation around the nucleus nobody can tell you

(58:37) well let’s call that god let’s call that an energy that somehow knows what it’s doing and knows how to form some kind of life that has structure and eventual consciousness and and can keep a flower budding and dying and budding and dying season after season like what is that i’ll call that god so they a lot of people will eliminate the reasonable idea that there is some mystery that exists that we’re all a part of that seems to have threads that we can’t quite understand intuition that we can’t

(59:07) quite understand how you jade are going to know when something beautiful happens to your children god forbid anything in any you know any you know injury happens at school you’ll go like most many moms what what just happened to seoul oh soul you know fell on the playground and twisted his ankle you know these mysteries i put in this big bucket of old whatever that is it’s connecting the whole universe it’s keeping them do you think science is getting like a little closer to peeking into whatever that

(59:37) is with the uh that quantum what’s it called particles that spooky particles at a distance and then quantum entanglement the two particles separated whatever in relation separated an infinite distance you change the rotation of one the other one changes simultaneously impossible what about space yes and not only peeking into it we’ve been looking science has always looked at it we’ve always had this separation between quote religion or spirit and science and they’re the same if the spirit doesn’t

(1:00:05) show up in the physical then i don’t understand like it’s all a reflection of each other so if we want to know god spirit look at life like that’s why i wrote life’s operating manual just look at life if you want to know spirit look at life why is it that we continually tend towards more love in the world you say what are you talking about the world no no no but look at the world’s arc look at how we started out 200 000 years of us as a species arguable but that’s around right to now we we are we’ve evolved so much when i

(1:00:39) was your age guys and and and even younger homosexuality was illegal in a lot of states you couldn’t even think about the idea of two people of a different um sexual persuasion um getting married you couldn’t think about it it wasn’t even a possibility they were i was one who judged because i was raised in the catholic church they are sinners that idea is completely flipped on its head we’re all now opening up to seeing the beauty of these unions and this diversity and this wonderful new um part of humanity that were that were

(1:01:11) recognizing well 150 years ago barack obama would have been enslaved you know yeah 70 years ago whatever and now he was our he’s a beautiful leader that came forward and said do you see the beauty of people of color you see what you have been crushing and now it’s turned into a gem right it’s so beautiful we keep moving this way what is that i want to look at that because something created that force that didn’t create the force of oh wow we have a murderer let’s all be like him nobody wants to be

(1:01:42) like him right what is that force i want to look at that and that tells me about spirit that tells me who i am it’s got to walk everything you guys talk about has to walk if it doesn’t walk toss it excuse me toss it out or put it in the bin of like i don’t quite understand it yet yeah give it some time give it some time that gives me hope tom it reminds me of um the road less traveled some the book you you gifted me um you and i both ask a lot of questions we often even answer each other’s questions

(1:02:13) with a question um if this were your podcast and we were your guests what question would you ask each of us why did you have tom i love that um i would ask this question how has this podcast walked in your life my hope of course would be that this podcast isn’t something that you offer to the world and then you shut it down and then you go about your life and you learn nothing about yourself about oh you know like i don’t know when you had mr selegon if you thought you were less than and suddenly you realize

(1:02:56) oh wow he honored us he respected us i was so appreciative of how he respected you um so did you walk away with more respect for yourself like i’m just curious how this is changing you because i never done a film that hasn’t changed me i’ve never done a piece of art that hasn’t changed me how’s this changing you hmm i think i love that should we answer this [Laughter] i mean i was just going to say that i know jade and i had a conversation in the very beginning of us even you know the first few weeks

(1:03:27) of us having the inkling of doing this podcast and starting to just put little bit of bits of the pieces together and jade having concern you know and voicing the concerns that am i worthy of this am i prepared to do this is this something that i can fit into my life and all these questions of am i enough essentially um and and jade’s much better and has always been better at practicing vulnerability and even though when she says stuff i’m like yeah me too you know but she’s better at voicing them so i think that was

(1:04:02) something that we both went into this just like crossing our fingers and saying okay well the worst case scenario is that we’re getting to do this thing together you know we haven’t been able to hang out this way in a couple years now since she’s been with bellator so at the very least we’re gonna get to do this little journey with each other and if it’s not successful fine we’ll have walked away with having spend time together having researched topics and people that we really are interested in

(1:04:27) researching so it’s kind of a win-win but now now we’ve been recording for a couple months how long has it been jade just like two months yeah and for me at least i’d say yes it’s i’m already at this place where i’m like damn i did not realize how fast and furious the learning the lessons the changes that were gonna happen and and in ways that i didn’t really foresee like even between jade and i like how to build a business with another person i’ve never done that with another person um how to and i’ve

(1:05:06) never even thought of doing it with a female which is funny so navigating our two personalities which you know we we have a lot of differences and figuring out how to flow and become more of the sisters from other misters you know that that we already know we are and getting to even bond in the sisterhood with jade and i think has been really cool and something that i didn’t know would come so fast um and then just the the cram part like you’re talking about earlier we literally have to seek the pain sometimes like i’m gone for

(1:05:43) two three weeks out of the month each month for the next two months because of my schedule with bellator and traveling international and whatnot so we have to cram in all the interviews since we’re doing this as a weekly show within a tiny bit of time and that means it’s cram time it’s like we’re in college studying for the finals or something but it’s been awesome and it’s that thing you have to put yourself you almost have to put yourself uh put your back against the wall in order to

(1:06:08) motivate yourself to move forward through the pain to get to the gym on the other side well it tells me a lot that you uh are making time for this because you have every excuse to not make time for this and that’s how every great piece of art every great uh novel is ever done you you you say you know what i know i have a day job but i’m coming home at night and i’m writing you know and that’s what you’re doing you’re traveling and you’re coming home and you’re doing your work and you’re

(1:06:38) doing your research and you’re getting your show ready to go and you’re doing it and it shows me a lot it tells me a lot yeah but i think i think um so in my 20s a lot of my friends would tell me like that i was such a light and here in the last two years a lot of those friends have said it seems like your light is gone um it seems like your self-esteem has been uh damaged and you know it’s been a rough couple years well i remember tom you telling me i told you i i watch ellen every day because she makes me so happy and she’s so

(1:07:15) she just radiates joy and you said jade she’s not always happy though the reason why she’s radiating joy is because she’s stepping into her calling when she’s on that show she’s doing her purpose and since i’ve started this show a couple of my friends have said man i really enjoy your show and your light is coming back so that confirmed in me that i’m supposed to be doing this right now amen so you so you walk with more confidence you walk with a a a sense that you are where you’re supposed to be

(1:07:49) yeah i can tell you this you answer the phone differently um yeah hey tomorrow we’ve been through a lot together jade and i have you know we’ve been breakup buddies for a long time and also you know seeking and on a path and um and your energy is it’s more um it’s a more confident energy it’s um you i would have described you before as a bit more sad openly as opposed to now where i can still feel your sadness but you own it it’s like i’ve always been comfortable with my sadness yeah of course because i i i you know

(1:08:32) i that’s my middle middle uh middle well actually my first name would be sadness um yeah yeah good stuff man because you you asked us that question i kind of want to turn around turn it around on you and ask when you wrote the movies that you’ve written the documentary you did um the book you’ve written did you have to find ways to force yourself through some of the hard parts of making that come to fruition or what was your process oh my gosh it’s the same every time i’m writing something right now i’m speaking

(1:09:06) on a computer now uh because i didn’t want to use my computer because i have a script in there that i’m working on and god forbid we have a technical problem and my computer blows up yeah so that thing is over there and um yeah i sit down and you know doubt being that pain too lonely to know that faith is his tim twin brother i sit and go this is gonna suck like but i still write i still do my job and then um and it’s pretty much the same every time except one thing i’ve done this so long that i know everything’s gonna be okay

(1:09:43) in the end you know fortunately most of the stuff i’ve done is done really well but i’ve got some stuff that has not so i know what that feels like and i know you survive and you move to the next one i think that that faith is huge that it takes time and and it’s essentially wisdom right that you’re building to know that getting to the other side is possible every single time yeah i you know i i think what jim carrey uh my dear brother said about hope being a beggar is darn close to true now again i hope is a positive

(1:10:15) human thing but if it at if hope is at the expense of faith then no because faith is knowing that you’re gonna survive this you’re gonna you’re gonna create exactly what you were intended to create you’re gonna you know hopefully always do the best you can and then trust and then let it go and trust that’s faith so i’ve been through this enough to know that the right thing will happen i can’t make things happen as hard as i try sometimes i know that there’s a lot of belief that you can

(1:10:44) make things happen i don’t necessarily believe that there’s too many converging energies and sometimes it’s just not right and then the thing you didn’t think was going to happen holy smokes like that thing is the thing it’s got an exactly what you needed yeah it’s exactly what you needed what the world needed was it something that a community needed then it and it opened up and you were able to serve that cool all right so a little bit of a change in direction here we have a question from

(1:11:12) the magic mob spam sam underscore 15 on instagram asks how do we get people to view incarceration rates in this country as a civil issue and not a quote-unquote crime issue what’s his name or her name well his name’s sam yeah we just call him spam spam sam it’s a sir you know i’m guessing that this person knew that i just did a film on the social justice uh yeah i’ve posted about it before so likely it’s a film um where a kid of color brian banks was convicted of a crime he didn’t commit and i got to

(1:11:55) see the system firsthand and it’s just really brutal and the question beneath the question i think he’s asking is um how do we get to be more human yes in the way we deal with people who are broken if somebody is committing a crime then in some in some way we’ve failed them right okay yes they’re responsible for their behavior to a point but in some way society has to take responsibility for failing to create the petri dish to raise up a healthy citizenship and so i love the question because it’s

(1:12:27) just how do we be more human you know in this process and and i think it has to again break down to seeing that that person is not a criminal but a brother or a sister who has a story to tell and if you listen to that story you might be able to meet them maybe there is a part that’s quote punitive or needs to be isolated but at the same time it must be restorative you must come like you would come with your own son just treat everyone like your own son or daughter whenever a crime’s been committed you know sometimes yes their danger you

(1:12:58) have to lock them up but what do you give them so that they can be a flower that grows right you can’t make it so dark that they can’t grow that they don’t have a chance and our criminal system right now sadly is punitive and it’s not restorative in far too many places and again that’s a reflection of us because remember as you see politics that’s how what you’re going to walk in the world through your laws right oh i see them they’re all wrong right i love what martin luther king say

(1:13:23) it’s very easy to vilify the evil doer what is incredibly difficult is to understand him so hear their story like i wish every quote criminal case first of all i wouldn’t wish we had a better word for it because we don’t call somebody with a broken leg a criminal we say you’re sick um you are ill you’re not well um and a broken spirit that causes you know behaviors that are anti-social in a way is is is the same but i wish every trial started with um okay we have to you we have to listen to

(1:13:57) you tell us your story tell us your story i want to hear your story no no we don’t want to hear about why you took the purse i’m not interested in that i want to hear your story how did you get here yeah just tell me about you did you have two parents was your mother able to have time or was she working too hard or was she drug addicted or or what happened tell me talk to me i want to hear your story and we focus on you know the blemish you know rather than what caused the what was the toxin underneath

(1:14:27) so i love you spam thank you yeah you got a good heart i can i can tell we also have a pick your poison from this is coming from at shirley13 on instagram the question is would you rather live 100 years in the past or 100 years in the future the trick question i know that’s why it’s poison yeah well i mean you know um i love jeff bridges has a new documentary called the futures past because we’re in the future’s past right now right we create the future by how we deal with this moment right but if i if i have to

(1:15:07) answer it in that headspace um it’s hard to answer because if i could go in the past and know what i know now hopefully you know i know you know like that would be kind of crazy what what you know what you could do so pride probably if i could know what i know now i’m like oh i might go back and then which means i’d be dead when this pod [Laughter] but it’d also be really flipping cool to see where we’re going i mean i know where we’re going as a species but what what dips will we have what you know

(1:15:39) what what what well we still have animals and trees we will believe we will i do believe we will i do believe that none of us know how restorative nature can be if we just flip the switch on how we see our separation from nature if we see ourselves as nature and as we support ourselves we must support nature um and once we flip that switch maybe there’s a consciousness that nature goes okay they’re getting it now cool like and they and nature itself can begin to heal and none of the scientists could see it because we still don’t know all

(1:16:07) the quantum things that can happen when there are shifts in in the way we think and perceive yeah um but boy would surely be cool to see both i know i go back a hundred years and figure out how to answer the question when i got to this yeah about that after 100 years so i do 99.

(1:16:28) 9 years then i get the next 100 years by answering this question differently that’s the answer right there yeah well i’m going where you’re going because i like having you in my life so whichever one you choose i choose that’s you yeah yeah you’ve been to the cop out yeah i think we’re all in the same place whatever that is i don’t think we’re stuck here okay yeah you’re going over here you uh you voted this way you’re going over here i don’t think that’s the case yeah i think for selfish reasons i

(1:16:56) would pick uh 100 years in the future just because 100 years back i’m half mexican i look very mexican my name’s mercedes probably not doing i’m probably going to be in some serious pain seeking not seeking just in it right right right right right at the assist true and at the same time and i’m an arab man so i mean i mean i’ve lived in this country um um three quarters lebanese but think what you could do like yeah by by um i mean again if you knew everything you knew now you could create so much oh

(1:17:27) yeah resources for your people to help them you know like let’s go to mexico right now and like like i’m going to take this thing called the internet and i’m going to put it in 99 years ago it’s kind of weird though google when i went to uganda i felt like i went back in time because they still stone people for being homosexual or for stealing and when you speak out about that stuff i got kicked off a bus so it’s almost scary to think about going back to that with the passion you have you know remember this that’s true it’s

(1:17:56) all yeah like because what’s in the future you know and we that we may not be able to connect with because we didn’t go through the processes that took us to get there spiritually emotionally um but think about this guys a hundred years from now people are going to look at us and think of how backwards we were not just because we did a podcast this way because we couldn’t all be in the room together by instantly re-you know organizing our molecules yeah but because we have certain ways of living right now that we’re accepting

(1:18:31) that i promise you in a hundred years or thousands people are going to look back and go what are you telling me seriously that 70 people had as much wealth just 70 people as the other seven billion people how did you guys let that happen how did you live that way i hope that’s where we’re going to be a revolution against anybody with that but it’s a it’s a consciousness thing because we all want to be that person yeah and they’re gonna say really you guys all like thought that way they’re gonna look back at us and go

(1:18:59) you guys are friggin nuts right maybe they will have just a whole better appreciation of the time while we were freaking nuts to get us to whatever that hopefully more utopic that would be the evolved way of saying it i’m saying it from a very unevolved way like i get nuts thank god you guys live this way because you got to experiment with it which is how i do view it you got to experiment with it you saw that it didn’t work the imbalance it created well guess what we created because of your imbalance

(1:19:27) we’re much more in balance we’re much more we still have rich people we sell people without as much but nobody like it’s like nature there’s not one there ever one fat oxen and then the others are all skin and bones or not every one bird that’s swimming in grease and everything else is is you know can’t move like it so we have to become more like that and and again it’s this iteration this experimentation that’s not going that well in that regard that the future generation will change i hope

(1:19:57) so i mean we certainly have always as humans as far as we have on record had this doomsday mindset where we’re always looking at this impending doom whatever that might be in the generation you grow up in and we’re doing that you know now i don’t know if it’s just a cycle and this is how this is how humans express themselves maybe it’s the way that we get ourselves subconsciously and subconsciously out of the way of whatever the danger might be when you see movies especially you know through movies i feel like i learned so

(1:20:28) much too like elysium where you’ve got this that you know tiny one percenters that move to this other planet and leave everybody else behind and now we’ve got elon musk building this mars idea compound whatever’s going on it’s it sounds the same cycle essentially over and over again us just worried about everything’s going to fall apart around us but i think you’re right we will we will as either human beings as a species we currently are be able to survive this one way or another because

(1:21:01) that’s what we’re good at doing or being the cancer we are on the other hand of that the yin yang of that be able to evolve into whatever our next evolution is whether that just is mentally or whether that’s becoming partly robot so we don’t have as much free will as we do currently as humans and we are able to act more like being you know the divine and seeing the divine and everything else and programming that into ourselves i don’t know how that comes whether we consciously get to do that or we have to

(1:21:32) almost program it in like i’m saying well the very fact that you are um aware of this and that you you have urges toward wanting to survive i think tells you the answer your urges are always i want this to go on you know if i have a family or friends or i want there to be a community a hundred years now i want this to go on that urging tells you a lot so i’m not saying there won’t be you know there’s some people that believe in the guy of philosophy where some huge event you know is going to have to take six out of seven people

(1:22:06) so there’ll only be one billion people left boy those one billion will certainly have learned that we can’t continue this way that we’ve got to have a new story that we tell ourselves that we’re not separate that we’re one thing that uh you know there but there goes my brother there goes my sister you know always a reflection um but it’s gonna you know life knows what it’s doing yeah black knows what it’s doing we have to trust in that trust yes that’s something i learned a

(1:22:33) lot until you ride with you a big message of just us being alone there but together i learned a lot of just trust the universe trust life um so easy it does it it is one of you know i don’t believe that much in choice i know this is a controversial topic but it is one thing how we choose to experience things so you can experience things as this is the end of the world or this sucks but it’s a part of life and something’s coming something’s coming from but even that’s a huge a pass huge difference

(1:23:09) like this like a lot of people are going to bed tonight saying this country’s over like you know the country’s over it sucks like this side hates this side and we hate each other and it sucks and if the election does oh my gosh the election didn’t so now it’s over and it ain’t over it ain’t over man you know i’m a storyteller and uh there’s a saying that i love and again people will accuse me of being um you know an idealist and i’m not i believe i’m a realist but this saying is

(1:23:40) this all stories end well if it’s if it hasn’t ended well it’s not the end of the story so the mother who loses her child at the parkland shooting terrible but the story didn’t end there she became an advocate for a saner world um and we just can keep going and at some point even if the darkness steps into more darkness it alchemizes and starts to move up yeah i love that um so tom there’s a few short questions that we like to end the show with and the first one is so the first one is what advice would

(1:24:24) you give to your 25 year old self uh probably don’t listen to advice would be my uh uh what advice i give to my 25 year old self um that um it’s okay um that’s it just it’s okay everything is necessary young tom everything is necessary every failure you have every struggle i’ve had 10-year periods of just absolute can’t get anything started going just doors shut in my face it’s all necessary tom it’s all necessary i got you meaning the i am i got you it’s all necessary is that something that

(1:25:14) you needed to hear as a child as well i it might be a little hard for the child to understand that as a as a philosophy i think the child experiences it as the mother’s consistent love and embrace because the child isn’t at that point what we do when we get older oh i’ve got to have some kind of job or purpose or you know i’ve got to succeed and all that stuff is is you know a poison unless looked at in a healthy way um so yeah i just uh i would tell that tell that little freak it’s all uh it’s all

(1:25:53) necessary it’s all necessary i love that okay so before asking this next question i want to mention that your book life’s operating manual is one that i read pretty early on in my own soul-seeking you know spiritual journey and many of the teachings from it have been serving me ever since i read it so thank you for being so open with your story that was very important to my life um sure the question is if you could have the world read one book besides life’s operating manual of course which would it be jade what’s the book

(1:26:37) the sunrise i would have them read the sunrise i know that’s a cheating answer but see i see scripture i see wisdom in the precision and beauty and impossible uh clockwork that is the sunrise every morning and if you can read that man you every other book would come alive even even more can you imagine how different the world would be if we actually did do that at every morning i mean i totally agree i think the sun rises or even just looked at the stars at night either sunset stars at night it’s just a metaphor for it’s something beauty yeah

(1:27:20) the world’s beauty that it has to offer it’s all around us like it doesn’t have to exist in a book in our society we we seek wisdom that way but it’s all around us i do want to say also that your book life’s operating manual is the most gifted book in our lives i’ve gifted it to mercedes and we both gift it to i mean it’s true everybody that i feel like is um you know in a place where they’re on the brink of like that soul seeking like mercedes said that’s that’s like right

(1:27:52) away this is what you got to read well i appreciate that that means a lot i mean you know that’s 25 years of me you know just wanting to understand like i always wanted to know what’s true and i’d been taught so many things that just didn’t bear out what success was and what it was to be human or an american or a man or a citizen or a you know it just i had to it’s what you know richard rohr says there’s three phases construction deconstruction and reconstruction and so they constructed this you know

(1:28:28) you’re catholic this is what it means to be a person who’s god-fearing and this is what it means to be a success and i had to break all that down yeah and then this book is an offering i hope and you’re telling me you know you’re reflecting that it it has some value to say this is what i heard when i broke all that down like i heard these other things that felt more powerful it’s so so relatable because the fear and truth dialogue is it’s what’s in our heads all the time you know yeah um yeah that’s my one of

(1:29:00) my favorite parts um and i i have the unedited version of the book also and it’s one of my favorite items in the house you know the fair truth dialogue is also that i think the scariest for a lot of people because they you know we all have those questions like you said right so you say like what if this podcast fails right a lot of people don’t go to the next place like and say well i want to answer that and that’s the fear and truth truth will say well tell me what happens yeah and most people don’t go to that place

(1:29:33) and so truth will say and so the fear and truth dialogues are scary right because when you present something like okay our economy can be reinvented in a more just way oh no it can’t why can’t it and then it starts to pick it and look for something that might be more true or more powerful so um i i love that that shows that you guys have the courage to ask the questions you know you know so it’s like it’s like i told harold you know harold’s a good friend of jade mine he donated a kidney to a

(1:30:04) stranger and harold was going to make a life change and become a part of this conversation that i have through what i am and you know and he’s always talking about this stuff and such a compassionate soul and he said yeah but i’m so scared of you know like doing this okay harold what will happen if you do it and it just fails miserably what will happen and he thinks for a minute he goes come on take me to your worst fear he goes i’ll start my family will starve i go okay let’s okay that’s valid let’s

(1:30:32) look at that do you have a brother that has money yeah yeah my brother’s got plenty of money you think your brother would let you starve no you’d never let me start do you think i would let you starve as long as no no so do you actually think you will starve is this just the fear you haven’t looked at and you go down the line and then he gets to oh i i think i need to try this no good excuses left right the fears aren’t they they don’t hold up yeah yeah and when you look at when you continue to ask the questions

(1:31:00) you know truth always wins over fear it’s more powerful it’s just more powerful and if there’s a fear that’s more powerful than truth then that’s what’s true if there’s a lion coming at me and i need to run well that’s right right now [Laughter] so so you know truth is always more powerful if fear was more powerful we’d have a world again that would be bending not towards justice the moral arc would not be long and bending it would be going the opposite direction well our last

(1:31:35) question for our guest is um if you could whisper one phrase to everyone on the planet what would it be you already are [Music] we all need to hear that you already are oh but i’m not successful i haven’t sold the movie i haven’t you already are you’re it you’re it with a capital i like in you are the same energies that created the universe in you like just look at one cell you already are yeah you taught me that is that it’s that idea of being perfect and unprocessed at the same time life exists

(1:32:19) in the belly of a paradox you are you are it at the same time you’re still in process you guys are creating a podcast i’m writing a movie this process is the play you know the spirit in space and time dancing yeah but we’re it we’re it like we’re it yeah i love by existing i suppose and just by having the desire i am i am is the root of existence i am as the original utterance of god being a human being as opposed to just human doing which is part of the paradox you are humans doing yeah but the being is the

(1:32:53) undergirding right you already are you’re you’re that look at that that’s so cool okay i love that well tom perfect normally at this point in the show we would ask where people can find you on social media et cetera but when it comes to the interwebs you seem to be a missing person so you want to tell us why i’m pretty dark on that um i used to say like i’m more interested in the internet um inn er um but you know what it’s a tool that my stubbornness has to look at and i will soon and i’ll and i’ll get on

(1:33:27) the twits and [Laughter] and um not sure i’ll get on facebook but um maybe when they come out with soul book or something you know facebook just has like a resume i don’t know it’s a tool i shouldn’t judge it’s a tool so i’ll be there soon so this is one of the things if you go back to the question what are you scared of okay that’s amazing um i’m honestly afraid of of most social media most the time too i’m just like always putting it off when can i be done you guys look at stuff though

(1:34:01) and look at like because again it’s it’s there’s so many energies that come at you you’re this you’re that you know and and golly i’m such a thin skinned you know like you gotta look at this i feel everything like it’s hard you gotta look at top half of the internet so the bottom where all the comments are scrolling through that’s what you don’t look at so the top half meaning what what does that mean before just don’t read the comments yeah just the content of whatever whoever is

(1:34:32) trying to put out there and then you know just leave the comment section alone as much as possible with us yeah we have to interact though as well so there’s i mean there’s good and bad we you get a thicker skin i think after the practice seek the pain tom seek the pain you know what it’s interesting like i thought uh you know i would get a thicker skin the longer i was an artist but it seems to be the opposite i feel everything even more intensely um so in that arena i’m not yet courageous enough to maybe seek that

(1:35:05) you suck tom but i love that about you you when you’re listening to someone talk you make a noise i don’t know if i can mimic it but it’s like a like almost like a grump but it’s not a grunt it’s like a um like that like it’s like you can’t you can’t stay silent when you’re hearing something beautiful because and you’re like that noise comes out because you’re feeling it and you’ll you’ll mutter sometimes that’s beautiful and then i’ve seen you also you and

(1:35:35) foco you know while eating dinner you’re just talking about something and i look over and you both have tears on your face just because you’re feeling it so much what you’re talking about and so i don’t if social media is going to give you a thicker skin then don’t get it because yeah well well said i appreciate that yeah i’ve i’ve learned to see the beauty in in in tears and uh i i hope that a hundred years from now we don’t say to each other what’s wrong when somebody’s

(1:36:04) emotional we say what are you it’s what are you feeling like do you want to talk about it or what are you feeling yeah what do you need what do you feel like how’s your heart such a good magic trick tom that’s your magic trick for today how are you feeling instead of what’s wrong i love that yeah i do love that so tom before we we let you go um i don’t know why i feel emotional too i feel like i already know you so much tom um i just want to say that what you’ve done with the time you’ve

(1:36:37) spent here on this planet has most certainly raised the vibration in the world around us i know that without you having existed here in this exact time and space my life would have been less vibrant i i might have been unable to find even so much joy and comedy without knowing your work i might have even laughed less during my lifetime for sure actually i know that’s the case um and when it comes to your more serious works i want to sincerely thank you for making me feel less alone and maybe even less crazy uh like we were saying before i know

(1:37:20) that reading the fear and truth dialogues in your book i was able to have some sort of proof that other people have those type of conversations in their heads too the messages you put across in many of your works have been really fantastic guiding stars so thank you for being my teacher too and last but not least i just wanted to mention that all of the beautiful influence and impact you’ve had in and on jade’s life i’ve actually been fortunate enough to be you know close enough with her and spent quite a lot of time close enough to that

(1:37:56) light that it’s shown onto me too so thank you for being you and for coming on our show today and sharing your very bright light with us and our listeners we appreciate you wow well i was trying not to have that little grunt i was interiorly grunting thank you thank you you you uh you’ve made my uh incarnation okay i suppose it’s just my day uh thank you mercedes thank you and tom you know what you mean to me and i don’t know what i would be or if i would be without your friendship so thank you and i’m so glad that you came on and i

(1:38:41) can share i feel like i’m always like well tom says and well tom says and now i can just say tom’s talking listen well you guys this has been such a joy i’ve already told you one of my challenges is how alone i am would you mind if we did this tomorrow okay i’m just kidding you put up with me enough so now so uh so thank you you guys are such a blessing and i’m really happy for what you’re doing and how authentically you’re you’re putting your voices out in the world and uh you know

(1:39:13) jade to see you grow like this is just such a blessing and mercedes man to feel your energy and to hear that mystic just you know from some other infinite place you know we see that same thing you know to see that connection is just just awesome so um all right cool man thanks tom go right ace ventura three um i’m only kidding it’s not after we watched lion king you said you were gonna do that i wish it was ace three jim if you’re out there and you want to do it i’ve got we got please we want you to do it everybody wants to see

(1:39:50) ace three it’s true he has the best idea and i won’t say it but we watched lion king and it was his first time ever seeing it which i was honored by the way to be sitting next to someone their first time watching lion king um and he had a great idea for it which yeah yeah you gotta do it especially right now with the state our country is in do it all right well get jim on your show and talk him into it um so i’ll close with an ace mentor alrighty then [Laughter] tom do you know what to do i hope so i

(1:40:36) know i i close skype i hit stop record and then i go up to the file and i go down to what is it and then i go to uh wave so you don’t you don’t have to um if you want to walk them through and make sure adam gets it properly while we’re on the phone we can still do that while he’s on skype whatever i mean so i’m i’m you know i’m not usually confident with this stuff but i’m confident with this stuff i just do not want to lose the file so i’m going to walk through it again i’m

(1:41:10) going to close skype okay we’re going to say goodbye to each other and by the way you guys you’re you’re really wonderful it’s really wonderful to talk with you like really like you know jaden and i have a relationship we’re we’re you know we’re deeply connected mercedes i feel really blessed to know you now in this way and i think you guys are really good for each other this is just for you not for the podcast you’re like perfect for each other because mercedes i can tell like you are

(1:41:37) a mystic and but you’re straight ahead mystic like you’re very practical you’re like you are like get this [ __ ] [ __ ] done [Laughter] and jade is like this light bearing being who’s so sweet and gentle and so you both need each other because jade she gives you that like all right let’s go let’s move we got to do this like let’s move and then you give her this softness which she which she is but it’s deep down underneath all this stuff that happens in life so you’re perfect

(1:42:05) for each other it’s a really nice couple i appreciate that we’re having a lot of fun with it we’ve had a lot of fun with it over the all the damn years now that we’ve been together so it’s been a cool ride this is going to be one of those things like i said on you know your deathbed you think back on and go that worked out yeah like that part was something that i told told jade the first time i saw or listened to your podcast was um i like you guys and and your voice was the first one to come through

(1:42:34) because you’re like a person like you’re not like you know some of my friends are on spiritual podcasts and everything they talk about you know and like oh yeah and you’re like you know like okay look like can you know what time is it could we like i guess let’s move on that’s funny you say that much doorway to so many people like and then you mystical thing like i think about my deathbed better say hearing that from you because uh what jade i was telling you like two days ago or something my mom’s like ah

(1:43:05) she finally figured out how to listen to the podcast and she’s like uh i just wanted to tell you before you hang up and i’m trying to get off phone i got 500 other things to do you know she’s like well before we hang up i just want to say i really love listening to jade she’s so soothing and calming to listen to and i cannot stand listening to you you break up the sentences and it it’s so hard to follow your train of thought and i just i can’t and then and then she turned on her podcast while we’re

(1:43:31) talking so it’s like talking over i’m like mom oh my god and it’s going at lightning speech has it like it said at 1.5 or whatever she’s like i had to turn it faster because you talk too slow i just can’t take it oh my god well so thank you mom that’s i mean again whenever you get there thank you mom because all of that is why i’m doing the podcast you know that’s why i do my stuff you know because nobody heard me and so i want people to be heard and so i want to do things that allow myself

(1:43:57) and others to be heard so yeah so it’s in you too so we have we pretty much all got the same parents it’s literally true one way or another they’ll get you right they’ll get you one way or another exactly okay so but i think i’m confident so i’m gonna i’m gonna close skype and then i’m gonna go and i’m gonna hit the stop record i know which one it is and then i’m gonna go up to the bar the file and i’m gonna go down to export and i’m gonna go to wav wave and then i’m

(1:44:22) going to name it and it’s going to live on this computer yes that’s perfect just uh call or text if you get stuck you want me to do it right now well if i screw up then i’m going to do it like and be fine i can see the buttons i trust you all right yeah well i appreciate you guys more than uh more than i can express so so thank you tom well that was the most awesome show ever we’ll do another one next year or something after you do a whole tally and we’ll see how we’re different yes you

(1:44:56) have to be our yearly guest yeah i would love that i would love that so yes thank you tom okay love you guys love you so much thank you in a couple weeks yeah yeah cool all right okay bye yay that went perfect that was so good that was the best one we’ve done like paul was really really good but this is like right there how long was it just the interview alone was uh like right at an hour and 20 minutes okay so but still like it doesn’t even need editing it’s like just good it was just good but it means

(1:45:34) it is long i wonder if there are repetition i don’t know we’ll let’s let adam listen to it well he’s probably gonna he’s not gonna get to yeah i’ll let chris listen to it my worst critic well let’s go ahead and record the end first and then the intro because that’s what’s easiest for adam oh okay you know what’s so funny look um this thing just popped up for the call recorder hold on a second i’m gonna do something real quick i’m going to stop the call recorder because that thing that tells me every

(1:46:16) time